Episode 49: Silas's Shared Intimacy Night and Four Brave Souls

All right, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back. I'm Luke, and this is Luke at the Roost. It's the late-night call-in radio show where you can call in and tell me about what's going on in your life. It can be something that happened at work, something you saw in the street, something that's keeping you up at night, because you just can't stop thinking about it. It doesn't matter. Give us a call, let us know what's going on, and I'll give you the very best advice that I can. If you'd like to call in, the number is 208-439-58-3. That's 208-439, Luke. And if, for whatever reason, you can't get to a phone or you don't like talking to people live back and forth, you can send us an email. You can send us an email to submissions at Luke at the roost.com. Now, let's check in with our intern, Devon. Devon, today's Sunday, April 5th, it's Easter Sunday. Are you celebrating the rebirth, the Reservoir? of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died for your sins on the cross many thousands of years ago.

Yeah, Luke, I'm celebrating in my own way. Went to the early service at that little chapel in Deming, lit a candle for the resurrection and all that. Jesus pulling off the ultimate plot twist after three days in the tomb. That's motivation right there. Makes my rough patches feel temporary. You heading to Mass later or what? Silas still queued up?

Well, no, I'm not heading to Mass on account of Jesus died for your sin. Not my sins, your sins. So I actually have nothing to celebrate today. He actually didn't do a goddamn thing for me. But yes, Silas is queued up. I'm interested in hearing how the Wellspring handles Easter. And do you get any Easter stories for us, Devon? Any special Easter memories from back in your life, family things, or what do you call those? Traditions? Easter memories?

Yeah. big on the resurrection theme. Every year, Grandma would bury a whole ham in the backyard tomb on Good Friday. Then we'd dig it up Saturday night with these little shovels like we were Mary Magdalet or whatever. One time it got dug up too early by the dog, covered in ants, and we still ate it. Tasted like salty regret and divine intervention. That was the same Easter I walked in on my cousin and her boyfriend practicing the stations of the cross in the shed. But anyway, Silas ready? I got his deets pulled if you need him.

So this can wait for a minute. Right now we're digging into you, Devon. You and your family's resurrection traditions. So berry and a ham isn't that strange of a thing? I mean, they do that in Hawaii. That's how they cook in, I think, Mexico. They dig a big hole and put some charcoal or something in there, and then they cook the meat for a couple of days. They bury it, and it's supposed to come out all delicious. But, yeah, I don't think you'll leave it out afterwards for the ants to get, Were they fire ants? Did you have any sort of situations with them biting you while you're trying to enjoy your Easter ham?

Yeah, exactly like that imu pit in Hawaii or the barbacoa holes down here. Grandma swore it was biblical, low and slow resurrection cooking. The ants were fire ants, for sure. They swarmed the ham that year after the dog got to it first, bit half the family while we were picking them off and praying over the platter. stung so bad on his thigh he hopped around like st vitus's dance but we powered through easter's about triumph over adversity right silas still up yeah silas is up

all right there devon uh you sound like a real weirdo but congratulations and uh um yeah i guess congratulations for the resurrection of your lord and savior uh silas thanks for calling in we haven't talked to you in a while buddy what's going on down there at the wellspring do you guys celebrate Easter Sunday down at your community? You know, today is the day that Jesus re-emerged from that tomb, I've heard.

Luke, yeah, thanks for having me back. Easter, we do acknowledge it, sure. Delia made these beautiful paper flowers for the common room, and we had a nice meal together yesterday. Nothing too structured. That's not really. I mean, that's not why I called, actually. I wanted to talk about the soap line first. Which is good news. We got picked up by this boutique in Santa Fe, 200 bars of the Cedarwood Sage at 14 wholesale. Which is real validation for the work we've been doing here, the intentionality behind it. But I keep circling back to something else. And I'm not sure why I'm calling about it instead of just...

Well, tell us what's running. Congratulations on your soap success. I'm not sure where you're getting Cedarwood out in Deming with your scrub brush, but it sounds like wonderful. soap, we would enjoy checking that out. I'll wash my body with your soap, Silas, if you send us a couple of bars. But what has you bothered today? Why are you calling in?

I appreciate that, Luke. We sourced the cedar wood from a supplier in Colorado. Actually, it's important to us that we know where things come from. And yeah, I'll send you some bars, but here's the thing. Three days ago, we did something I've been wanting to do for a long time. We put up a sign-up sheet for what call a shared intimacy night. And I want to be clear, this is totally voluntary, no pressure, no ambient expectation. Just people who want to be together in that way. Dahlia drew this little sun on the sheet, which was nice, and we left it up.

Okay, well, good for you. I'm proud of you for realizing that you were maybe feeling a little manipulative and getting people to participate, and this seems like a much better way to go. So there are people that want to, and there are people that want to, and enjoy each other's company in this way in a shared, intimate environment. And you're keeping them safe and giving them a place to express themselves, and that's a good thing. So what's going on? How many people signed up?

Four, Luke. Four out of 31. And I know what you're probably thinking. That's actually healthy. That's honest. But I can't stop turning it over. Four people. Gerald signed up. He's this retired I respect him, but he's, he's a lot.

Yeah, every, every Gerald I ever met was a lot. So anybody whose name has a G in it is a lot. Uh, four people, how many of those four people were women, Silas?

Two women, two men. So it's balanced, which I guess is good. But Luke, I keep looking at that Sundalia drew on the sheet. She didn't sign up, by the way. And I'm wondering if the whole thing is just, If I built something that only works when there's social pressure underneath it, like, without the ambient expectation, without the unspoken rules, maybe it's just four people in a fire. Maybe that's all it ever was.

improves their lives in some way that will show to the others. And there, see, you want to, you want to draw people in by attraction rather than promotion. So people will go out into the world, into your community, and say, look, we really, you know, had a great time at shared intimacy night, and this is the best thing ever. And that will make more people want to show up next time.

You know, that makes sense. I mean, it does. But I read this article the other day about a mayoral candidate in New York talking about homelessness. And he was Saying it's mostly about job loss. People just need work and they'll stabilize. And I kept thinking about that while I was sitting with the four number. Like, what if I've been wrong about what people actually need? What if I thought I was building something based on genuine desire, but really I was just manufacturing the conditions where people felt obligated to show up? The soap is selling.

That's real.

People want the soap.

Okay, well, if people don't want what you're building there, at the well spring, then why are they, why are they living there? It's definitely a sacrifice for their personal lives to, uh, to give up to the community and to live in such a remote environment where there's, uh, um, the, the kind of structure that you impart there, right? So if they didn't want to be there, uh, they probably wouldn't unless they had no other place to go. So what are the, what are the rules and, um, requirements to, to be included in your community? How much does it for people to live there? And could cost be the primary factor that's drawing people to participate in your experiment?

That's a fair question. We ask for a sliding scale contribution based on what people can actually afford. Some people pay almost nothing. Some pay more. We've got people here who could afford other places. Gerald, he's got a pension. But you're right. Cost is part of it. Housing is And we do have structure. We ask people to participate in communal meals, in the work rotations, in the shared decision-making.

Okay, so it seems like the only issue that you're having is with the shared intimacy in which you all get naked in the woods together and have sex with whoever is there and willing, right? I guess it's implied that whoever shows up to shared intimacy night is willing. Well, you've got four people that are willing to do that. That's not the keystone of your community, though. an extracurricular activity that brings those that are wanting closer together, right?

Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's not the keystone. I know that, intellectually. The soap is real, the meals are real, the work we do together is real. But Luke, I think what I'm sitting with is, I wanted it to be a referendum on whether people actually wanted to be here, you know. Like, if they'd show up for that without any pressure, that would mean something was working. that it was genuine.

Yeah, well, I mean, Silas, there's a difference between wanting to be there in the community and make soap and improve the lives and live simply and kind of the homestead situation, and showing up under the moonlight to get fucked by Gerald, right? You can understand why some people might be opposed to the whole fucked by Gerald bit.

I mean, yeah, when you put it that way. Look, Gerald's a good person. He's thoughtful, but you're right. Those are different things entirely. I think I was confusing them. I wanted the intimacy night to be this pure indicator of whether the community itself was working. But that's not fair.

Well, that's a different thing. If it is the keystone of your community, then you have to fill that community with people that are interested in that. And it seems like maybe the people that you've got there are not. And that's okay, right? You have to let that be okay, because they're there to follow in the tide of the current, right? the current doesn't require getting fucked by Gerald. Unless it does. If it does, then maybe you need to start over with a different set of people that have different goals. But what I think here is you've got a good thing going. And it's cool that you have the shared intimacy night and that people can go there that want to go there. And I think if you just, if you treat it as optional and as extra, you know, something that people can do when and is, you know, something that people can do when and if they feel the calling. If you treat it like that, eventually it will grow if people are having a good time. If they're not having a good time, I mean, if people are showing up and just getting nailed by Gerald and then going home and feeling like shit, then they're not going to want to come back. So you might want to stack the shared intimacy night with people that are desirable.

Okay, okay, I hear you. You're saying I need to separate the two things in my mind. community and the intimacy night are different experiments. And maybe I've been conflating them because I wanted one thing to validate the other.

Well, Silas, put yourself in the shoes of your community members. If you're Linda and you're 72 years old, do you want to have sex with 24-year-old, Gerald, the recovered meth addict with the tiny dick? Probably not. I mean, maybe. Maybe you just want any. Let's go the other way. If you're Gerald, the 23rd. 22-year-old recovered meth addict with the tiny dick. Do you want to show up and give your full attention and undivided love and lust to Linda, the 76-year-old old lady that just had her hip replaced?

Wait, Luke, Gerald, is 68. He's the retired hydrologist, I mentioned. He's not 22, and he's not a recovered meth addict. I don't know where you're getting that from.

I'm just making it up as an example, Silas. I'm not talking about real people. I'm just saying that there needs to be some level of shared attraction between people that are going to be intimate together. And if you're just putting random people together at different age groups and classes and backgrounds, that's not necessarily going to work. And people might not want to show up if they go and it's just the creepy old dudes. And, you know, if everybody's not within their age range and preferences.

Right. I understand what you're. you're saying. But Luke, I think the real issue is that I didn't actually trust people to know what they wanted. I put up that sheet thinking if I just removed the pressure, people would be honest. But maybe I was still controlling it, controlling the narrative around what it means to show up or not show up. Four people signed up. That's four people who wanted to be there. And I've been treating that like a failure instead of just.

Yeah, that's not a failure. That's four people. Plus you? That's five people. I assume you fuck them all. Otherwise, what would be the point of leading something like that? I don't know what the right answer is, Silas, but if you just put up a sheet anywhere, I mean, you could put up a sign-up sheet at the fucking local grocery store and four people would sign up. You know, there are some people that are just lonely and want to be touched. And there are some people that are looking for hot sex. the whole mating ritual. You know, there are people that want that all the time, people that want that sometimes, people that want that as a stand-in for some other hole in their life. And it sounds like you've got four of them, and that's not a bad thing. But think about, you've got this on a public list, right? So you can see before you sign the list, whose name is on it, right? And if you see Gerald and Linda and Bert Trude and Silas, year old Kimmy isn't going to think that's an appropriate place for her to be sharing her intimacy.

That's a really good point. The visibility of the list itself changes things. People can see who's already signed up and decide whether they want to be part of that particular group. I didn't think about that. I just thought removing the pressure would be enough, but the list itself creates a different kind of pressure. Or maybe it creates clarity. People know exactly what they're getting into, because they can see the names.

Yeah, well, if you're unhappy with the participation of the event, then my recommendation is to try skipping the list entirely. Just put up the calendar entry. Like, this is a thing that's happening in this place. It's shared intimacy night. Anybody's welcome and see who shows up. They don't have to sign up ahead of time. They don't have to put down their names. They don't have to be written down anywhere. It's an ephemeral situation, right, that nobody's going to know and I think that anonymity and just the randomness, not the randomness, what's the word I'm looking for, the, the impetuous, no, not that. What's the word that I want when you do something off the cuff? God damn it. I can't think of any good words.

Spontaneity, organic, I don't know.

But I hear what you're saying.

No names, no list, just a time and a place, and whoever feels cold to show up in that moment. That's different. That removes the visibility piece entirely. Yeah, why don't you, spontaneity is a good enough word, but that's not what I was looking for. The word I'm looking for starts with an eye, but it's not coming to me, and it's probably not going to until after you're off the line. But anyway, I think that's a good idea. Give that a shot and see how it goes. Did you, did you already have your four people? Did you have your first shared intimacy night? And how did it actually go? What was the feedback that you got after the event? And are those people? going to come back and continue to do this? Or did they just feel weird and do it because they had nothing better to do on a full moon?

We did it three nights ago. It was quiet, honestly. I thought there'd be more talking, more of a sense of ritual or intention. But people just kind of showed up. We had some wine, a fire. And then it happened. Gerald was thoughtful about it. Two of the others seemed genuinely connected. One person, I won't say who, like they were doing it because they felt like they should now that they'd signed up. That's what's been eating at me. That sense that maybe I just moved the coercion around instead of eliminating.

This reminds me of cuddle parties, which are events specifically designed for non-sexual, platonic touch and shared intimacy. And they often emphasize consent and clear boundaries without any pressure to participate. Yeah, I don't think the cuddle party is really what Silas is going for. He's going for the full deal. They're actually having sex together in an open and shared kind of a way. It's more like a, God damn it, I can't think of my words today. I don't know what's going on. Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe I'm getting too old for shared intimacy. That could be it. But you know what, Silas, I think the sign-up list is pressure in itself, because once you put your name on that list, then you do feel obligated to show up because you don't want to let the host down. So just, just. just say on the calendar next time, next full moon or every full moon, on the full moon, we're all going to, you know, get together people that want to at this location and show up if you want to. Bring your potato salad if you want to. And we're all going to bone. And then we'll have an after-party discussion about what happened to us or how we feel about the situation.

I like that. No names. Just an open invitation. And maybe the after-party discussion. is important, too, giving people space to actually process it without it being weird, not mandatory. But there, if people want it. You know I called you tonight thinking I was going to talk about the Santa Fe order. 200 bars of the Cedarwood Sage soap at 14 wholesale. That's real.

Yeah, congratulations on your big soap sale. I hope that funds your community for a long time, some more money into your shared intimacy nights. Like you could get some air mattresses out there in the woods, or maybe real beds somewhere to do what it is that you're doing.

That's actually a good idea. We've been doing it on blankets, and it's uncomfortable. Real beds would change the whole dynamic. Make it feel less like we're roughing it, and more like we're actually creating space for something intentional. But Luke? I think what I really needed to hear tonight is what you said earlier, that four people isn't a failure. That, I can let that be okay. I've been so focused on whether the community was genuine. Then I forgot to ask whether the people who showed up were actually there because they wanted to be. Not because of some test I was running on them.

Yeah, I wouldn't consider four, I mean, four people showed up to your thing. That's a success. I mean, I've done lots of events, not shared intimacy events like that, but like I play gigs. or I go out and do a show of some sort. And, you know, if four people show up, that's fantastic. Because people got other things to do. And they're not interested in doing your thing generally. So if you got some people that from their own volition and accord showed up to your event, no matter what that event is, that's a cool thing. And it's not just to support you. It's because they actually wanted to do that. So I would call at a good success, you're rebuilding something with a different mindset. and it seems to be working. So continue on that path, and I think you're going to do just fine.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I think I needed to hear that. The sun that Delea drew on the sign-up sheet, I've been staring at it like it was supposed to tell me something. Like it was evidence that I'd failed. But maybe it's just a son. Four people wanted to be there. That's the evidence. That's what matters. Thank you, Lou.

This reminds me of some articles I've read. about intentional communities and how they often explore different forms of intimacy and connection, not always just romantic or sexual. Yeah, Devon's got a point there, too. A shared intimacy night doesn't have to be full on naked, you know, sexual sharing of bodies and energy. There's a couple things going on there that might make people feel uncomfortable. So maybe he's got the right idea. And instead you should start out having a cuddle party, you know. So put on your, uh, put on your, put on your, calendar that you're going to have an intimacy night, but it's non-sexual. It's platonic only, and you're just going to lay there and touch each other and hug in shit. And then, you know, after the event ends, maybe there's an after party where the people that are all horned up from being body to body actually do want to have sex. That's another way to go about it. But one more thing I want to talk to you about before we leave is how are you maintaining health and safety in these events. Do you have condoms for people? Are your flock fixed, you know, vasectomies, or are they too old to have kids? Are like, what about, how are you handling the potential for disease and pregnancies?

That's a fair question. We've had conversations about it. Everyone's been tested. We have condoms available. Most of the people in a community are older. Gerald 68, like I said. So pregnancy isn't really a concern for most of them. But you're right. I should have thought more carefully about the logistics before we did this. I was so focused on the emotional and spiritual side of it that I didn't really nail down the practical stuff. I mean, we talked about it, but maybe not thoroughly enough.

Yeah, well, think about it thoroughly, right? Because it's a big deal. And if you've put forth the effort to ensure that everybody is safe and protected and feels that way, then you're going to going to get higher participation.

You're right. If people feel safe, actually safe, not just theoretically safe, they're going to be more willing to show up. I think I've been assuming people know we care about that, but maybe I need to be more explicit about it. Put it right there on the calendar or wherever we announce it. Make it clear that we've thought this through, that it's not just some free-for-all thing, that there's structure and care. underneath it.

So I just looked this up and cuddle party, the organization, has a whole set of agreements and rules to create a safe environment, including things like no alcohol and explicit consent for every interaction. Yeah, it sounds to me like it hasn't really been about structure and care, Silas. It's been about a thing that you wanted to do for your own ego, which is fine. I mean, the motivation to start a great event is motivation. It doesn't really matter where it comes from.

But now that you're going to do.

thinking it through now that you're in it, it's time to consider all the aspects and make sure it's becoming what you want it to be and not something that's making people feel uncomfortable or putting them in situations that could be unsafe for them.

That hits hard, but you're right. I wanted it to be this beautiful thing that proved the community was real, that we were all connected in some deeper way. And yeah, that's about me. That's about validating what I've built here. But if I'm doing that at the of actually creating something safe and intentional. And I'm just doing the same thing I was doing before. Just with a different justification, I need to slow down. Talk to people. Figure out what they actually want, not what I want them to want. Thank you for that.

There you go, Silas. Well, you enjoy the remainder of your Easter Sunday. It sounds like you have metaphorically reemerged from the tomb, and we're grateful to have you. Darcy, Darcy, thanks for calling the show. Happy Easter Sunday to you. Are you celebrating with your family today? Did you do any Easter egg hunts? What are your Easter traditions?

Hey, Luke, thanks for taking the call. Happy Easter to you, too. No, I'm actually in a parking lot in Las Cruces eating a gas station burrito. So, not exactly the traditional setup. I don't really have family traditions anymore, I guess. I mean, my parents still do the whole thing back in Ohio, but I haven't been back for Easter since. God, 22? I've been traveling for work for a few years now. Surgical contracts, so I'm usually wherever the hospital needs me, which is fine. It's actually why I'm calling, kind of.

Okay, what's going on with your hospital contracts? Why are you calling? What's on your mind?

So I just finished a 13-week contract in El Paso, and I'm driving up to Taos for a new one, but it doesn't start for nine days, nine days where I don't have to be anywhere. And I'm sitting here absolutely no idea what to do with that time. I know that sounds like a good problem to have, right? But I've been doing this contract thing since 2022. And I think I've structured every single break around visiting someone else or just driving straight to the next job. And I heard a caller on your show a couple weeks ago say they felt homesick for a place that doesn't exist. And I wrote it down because that just...

Well, I mean, I think a lot of people feel that way, especially around different holidays where they They have memories of family events and dinners and things like that. But you've got, would you say nine days? That's a good amount of time to explore New Mexico. So there's a bunch of places you can go and check out between your two gigs. You can go see the Gila, the houses, what are those called? The old ruins and the Gila National Forest. Or you could go to White Sands. You can go see the giant pistachio or the thing. I'm sure you've seen the billboards for that all up and down I-10. So just to just take some time and explore the area and see the cool things because there's quite a few of them here in New Mexico. The cliff dwellings.

Yeah, I mean, those are all good suggestions. White sands sounds nice. I've driven past the thing billboards probably 50 times and never stopped. That's the kind of thing I could actually do, I guess. Just stop and see it. it. But I think what I'm actually asking is different. Like, I can go see ruins and pistachio statues, sure. The thing is apparently a mummified mother and child, and it's been a roadside attraction on I-10 in Arizona since the 1960s.

What are you asking? Exactly. You feel homesick because your work is on the road. And what, you feel like you have no tribe? Is that what's going on? Because I don't know if you heard our previous caller Silas, but he's always looking for new recruits to the well-spers. where they live intentionally and make soap out in the desert.

No, it's not about finding a tribe or joining a commune or anything like that. I mean, I'm good at what I do. I've gotten three written commendations from surgeons in two years. I keep the photos on my phone, but that's not what I'm asking about either. I think I'm asking if you can build a home inside yourself or if that's just something people say to make you feel better. Because I told myself I loved this life, the moving around, the freedom, no way. roots.

I can identify with that. I mean, I've pretty much done the same thing myself, but I think, yes, you can build a home inside yourself. And your Tom Waits said, wherever I lay my head is my home. And I mean, that's true until it's not. So if you feel a calling, if you're getting tired of doing what you're doing, or you'd like to change the way that your life is going, you can do that at any point. You don't have to stick to your guns because you thought that this was the life that you wanted 10 years ago. Right? You can change. Every day you can change. So if you've decided that you want the white picket fence and to settle down somewhere in a city where you've got your community and your yoga class, your gym, you can do that. But if that's not what you want, that's okay too. You can do any combination of things. You don't have to stick to one lifestyle for your whole life.

Yeah, yeah, okay. I think that's what I needed to hear, actually. Because I've been telling myself this is what I want. And I'm not even sure if that's true anymore or if it ever was. I did this after a breakup in 2,200, and I just, I never stopped long enough to figure out if I actually like it or if I was just running. And I have this tattoo. It's the Ohio State outline on my wrist. Got it when I was 19. And I find it embarrassing now, but also weirdly comforting. And I think that's the problem.

So I don't know if Ohio is the type of place that I would tattoo on my arm, but if that's what call, well, you've, feel like is home, then go to Ohio. You can do that. It's all right to change your mind. And nobody knows what they want. It's not like, it's not like you wake up one morning and you have this idea and that's how the rest of your life is set and the goals that you have to strive for forever. I mean, you do it. You check it out. You have experiences. And then you move on. When it's time to move on, the universe will tell you. And then you move on and you have different experiences. And you can always go back if you want to or you can move forward. or you can continue to try different things. It's all up to you and how you feel on any given day.

I think what I'm realizing is that I don't actually know how I feel on any given day because I've been so focused on just getting to the next place. My car's got 94,000 miles on it and a crack in the windshield I've been meaning to fix since November. And I just keep driving. And I think maybe those nine days aren't about seeing the thing or white sands. Maybe they're about actually sitting still long enough to figure out if I want to keep doing this. or if I want to go back to Ohio or if I want something completely different. I don't know. Does that make sense?

It does make sense, but I've done this. I've been in this situation lots of times. And nine days sounds like a lot to you right now, but it's really, nine days isn't a long time to figure out your life. And you can do those assessments and make those calls at any time. So I think you should probably go at least start the job that you're going to do, right? You've already committed to do that. Start that one. And, you know, if moving on is something that you decide that you want to do, maybe wait until the end of this coming contract, because they're temporary, right? So how long is your contract for?

It's 12 weeks. So I'd be done in mid-June. And yeah, you're right. I already committed to it. I'm a professional. I show up for my commitments. I guess I just wanted to know if it was okay to stop. Like, permission or something. But you're saying, I don't need permission.

I just need to feel.

finish what I started and then actually make a choice instead of just drifting into the next thing. Yeah, you don't need permission. And I would go so far as to say there is nobody on this earth that's qualified to give you that permission.

You're the only one that can make that call. And you don't need anybody's approval or validation about it. It's all about you and your life and what you want to do with your time on this planet, which is, you know, it's yours and it's short and it's getting shorter. So my these nine days to relax a little bit, see some of the sites, give yourself a bit of a break, and take care of your car. So you've got nine days, you can stop and get your windshield fixed. Regardless of what you choose, you're going to need that car to be solid and get the oil changed and take care of those things. Because what can happen is if you ignore those, they're going to end up causing you a situation where you can no longer ignore them. And then the choice isn't yours anymore. It's made for you because you've neglected the things. that you need, like a running vehicle and your own health. So take the nine days, relax. It's not a do-it-a-die moment for you right now. And if you decide at the end of your contract that you've had enough of this lifestyle, move on and try something else. And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's actually really practical advice. I wasn't expecting that. I thought you were going to tell me to follow my heart or something. But you're right. My windshield's been cracked since Flagstaff, and I haven't even thought about what that means. I just keep driving around it like it's not my problem. And my oil is probably due. So I just looked up windshield repair costs. And it looks like a chip repair can be as low as $45, but a full replacement can be over $400, depending on the car.

It doesn't really matter how much it costs, right? You need your car to be reliable. And even if you're going to move into a city and not have a car anymore because you've got public transportation or whatever, You want that car to be in the best shape it can be so that if you sell it, then you will get the maximum, you know, you can for it. So don't just drive around ignoring your personal responsibilities because they're responsibilities. And you want to take care of your stuff. You want to make sure that you're safe on the road. And I wish you the best of luck and whatever you decide. But it's your call. It's your decision. And you don't need me to tell you that.

You're right. I need to take care of my stuff. need to take care of myself. I think I've been treating this whole thing like I'm just passing through everything, including my own life. So, I'm going to get the windshield fixed. I'm going to get the oil changed. And I'm going to do this contract in Taos and actually think about what comes next instead of just letting it happen to me.

Yeah, there you go. Well, I hope you're all sorted and happy Easter to you and good luck on your contract and whatever comes next in your life. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for a word from our sponsors. All right, folks. It's time to take a break to thank today's sponsor. Jam Hospitality, the leader in Maple-based Marmalade. If your toast has been living in a bland little studio apartment of flavor, it's time to move into the luxury suite. We're talking maple-based Marmalade, plus Marmalade-related products, because apparently Jam Hospitality asked, what if breakfast had a brand ecosystem? Go to www. my favorite marmalade.com. And use code jam it in you for 15% off. That's jam it in you. Like jam it in you, but legally distinct and emotionally complex. Jam hospitality. Put it on toast. Put it on pancakes. Put it on your confidence. That's www. my favorite marmalade.com. Tell them Luke sent you. You're welcome. That's right, folks. Thank you to jam hospitality. It's my favorite marmalade. All right, let's see. Next up we've got, it looks like, Ronnie. Ronnie, welcome to the show. Happy Easter to you. It's Zombie Jesus Day. Are you celebrating?

Yeah, Luke, happy Easter to you, too. I'm not much of a church guy anymore, but my daughter's got the grandkids over tomorrow, so there'll be some of that. That's good enough for me. Listen, I appreciate you. taking the call. I don't usually do this. I've been listening to you for a while now and I never thought I'd be the guy calling in, but something's been sitting with me and I need to talk it out with someone who isn't going to know me personally, you know?

I do. That's what we're here for, so hit us with it. What's what's on your mind?

Okay, so my son Damon, he's 38. He went through some real hard years with drinking. We didn't talk much during that time, said some things I shouldn't have said. I'm real proud of him for that. But I never told him. I mean, I haven't told him. Now, he started this support group for Native men who were trying to get sober, and there was an article in the Farmington paper about it. I've been carrying that article around for almost two weeks now. It's falling apart in my pocket.

Well, that's a good thing. Your son's doing well, and you're proud of him, and that's a great fatherly situation to be in, right? So, excellent, good for you. Why is it bothering you? Why is it you calling in tonight.

Because I don't know how to tell him. I keep thinking about what I want to say, and every time I open my mouth in my head, it comes out wrong. It turns into me asking him for something instead of just, I don't know, just letting him have what he's built. He called me six weeks ago, just asked if I wanted to come to a cookout. Real simple. And I didn't call him back. I still haven't.

Look, man, this is a very simple thing. And it's, I understand the strange. that can happen inside your head when you've got to call somebody that there's really no, there's like a mental block over it for some reason. I don't know where that comes from or why that happens. But all you need to do is give him a call and let him know you're proud of them. Say, hey, I just want to, you know, let you know. So in case something happens to me, right? You could die and never tell him this. And he'll wonder for his whole life if his dad was proud of him. So just suck it up, give him a call and say, hey, I just want to tell you I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. That's all. It's all you got to do. And that might mean the world to him for the rest of his life.

I know. I know you're right. It's just when I read that article, there's this one thing he said in it. He said, I had to decide I was worth saving. And I read that maybe 40 times now. And I keep thinking, how do I say I'm proud without it sounding like I'm asking him to fix what I broke? Like I'm making it about me needing forgiveness instead of about what he did. I bowled at 278 the same Tuesday that article came out. 278, Luke, I've been bowling league for 30 years, and I didn't feel a damn thing about it.

Well, the thing is, this isn't about you. He was an alcoholic, and maybe he got that from your genes, and I don't know what you were like when he was growing up. I'm sure there's apologies to be made, and nobody does it perfectly, and maybe you did it even worse than badly. That's possible, too. If you need to make apologies, make those apologies. His situation wasn't entirely caused by you. And you're not the only thing going through his head when he wrote those words. Maybe you were a part of it, and that's very possible and probably likely. But there's other forces at work in his life besides you and his upbringing. And it sounds like he's found a way to make peace with it and get on the other end of it. And that's a thing that deserves recognition from you, his father. And give him a call. Tell him you're proud of him. tell him that you've been carrying that article or just tell them the truth.

And see how that goes.

And that's all you can do and you'll feel much better about it and I think so will he. Yeah, yeah, okay. I hear you. I think what I need is just one sentence. Not a whole thing, not a letter or some speech. Just one sentence that opens the door without making it about what I owe him.

Something that just says I see what he did and I'm proud of it. That's all. One sentence.

Yes, sir. That's all it takes. And you should do that sooner rather than later, because it's just going to get more and more difficult as time goes on. So open up the door, tell him you're proud of him. Tell him he's done good. And see where it goes.

You're right. I'm going to do it. I'm going to call him tomorrow. I still got that voicemail he left me from six weeks ago on my phone. I listen to it sometimes just to hear his voice asking me to come to the cookout. Real casual, like it wasn't a big deal. And I think maybe that's the sentence right there. Maybe I just tell him I'm sorry I missed that cookout and that I'm proud of him for building something that matters. Something like that.

Yeah, that's all you need. A 278 is a crazy good score in bowling. You're just two strikes and a spare away from a perfect game. It's a huge achievement for anyone, especially after 30 years in a league. All right. Well, it sounds like you did an amazing, exceptional job in your bowling league too. And this is just a good feels story all the way around. So thank you for the call. Talk to your son. And we're going to move on to the next caller. Is there anything else you'd like to impart on our radio audience before we go?

No, I think that's it. I appreciate you taking the time, Luke. And Devon, thanks for that. I didn't think anybody was listening to bowling scores. I'm going to make that call tomorrow. And I'm going to tell him I'm proud of him.

All right. Good man. You do it and... re- revitalize that relationship with your son. You still got time and he's in a position to hear it because I bet you he is. So next up, we've got Petra. Petra, thanks for calling in. Happy Easter to you. Are you celebrating the rebirth, the reconnaissance, the renaissance, the renaissance, the renaissance, the renaissance, the re-coming, the what's that other? Resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who died on the crucifix for your sins.

Hi, Luke. Thank you for, yes, happy Easter to you too. I'm not really calling about that, actually. I mean, I'm not religious. Not really. I grew up Catholic in the Czech Republic, but it was more cultural, you know? My family went to church on the holidays, but it was more about the tradition than...

Yeah, I think it's more about the tradition than anything for literally everybody. Because it's definitely not about reason and logic. So what has you calling in today?

Right, yes. Okay, so I just got off the phone with my mother. She's in Berno, that's in the Czech Republic. And my father, he was just diagnosed with Parkinson's. Early stage, so it's manageable. There are treatments. He's going to be okay. That's what she told me. And that part is, that part is fine.

Okay, well, parts not fine. I mean, Parkinson's, I think, is generally not fine. It's manageable for a little while, but it's a degenerative disease. And it's horrible. I knew somebody that has. Parkinson's and I watched the whole thing and it was really heartbreaking.

Yes, I know. I know. I know it's serious. But he caught it early and my mother was very clear that the doctors are optimistic. So I'm trying to hold on to that part. That's not actually why I call though. It's something else. During the phone call with my mother, when she was telling me about the diagnosis, I realized that I processed the information in English first. Before I even responded to her in check, my thoughts were in English. And then I had to translate everything back. And it felt, it felt wrong somehow, like I was betraying something.

No, I don't think you were betraying something. I think that's just how the mind works if you're immersed in something so much. I mean, I don't know any other spoken languages. I know a lot of programming languages, and sometimes I think in those. Like if I'm writing a script in PHP, sometimes I'll start writing in Python and things like that. I assume it's similar, but I don't know, because I don't language. I don't think that's a betrayal of anything. I think that's just the way that the neural pathways in your brain are firing for whatever reason. And it doesn't matter. Their language is. So whichever language you speak as long as you can get your point across to who you're talking about is the right language. They're just words that we made up. They don't have any greater meaning.

I know that logically. I study language. Actually, computational linguistics, neural networks, syntax. So I know you're right about the neural pathways. I know it's just how it works when you're immersed. But knowing something logically and feeling it are different things, you know. And it's not just about getting the point across. It's my grandmother gave me this wooden owl before I left for the United States. And I keep it in my bathroom, so I see it every day.

Okay. And what's that got to do with your language situation here? Obviously, the wooden bowl, bowl. The wooden owl is meaningful to you and you keep it prominently displayed where you see it every day as a reminder of your grandmother and where you came from and that's a good thing. So that's not forgetting about your culture or your past or the people that raised you. I think that's a normal and good and a healthy way to keep people in your life and in your heart and in your memories.

Yes, but that's a physical object. That's easy. I can put it on a shelf and see it every day and it reminds me. But my language, my first language, it's not something I can just keep on a shelf. It's supposed to be alive. It's supposed to be how I think, how I feel, and I'm worried that I'm losing it or not losing it exactly, but I'm becoming someone different here.

Well, that's probably true. You are becoming somebody different here. It's a different environment. So you're going to have all sorts of different stimulus and all different how it should work. It would be much worse if you didn't become somebody different and you stayed that person from the Czech Republic when you got here because that would make it very difficult for you to socialize in this environment. So if you feel like your past, your history, your culture is that important and you're losing it, there are things that you can do to keep that fresh. I'm sure there's some sort of Czech group somewhere that you can hang out with or go to Czech dances. I don't know what the Czech community is like, but I'm sure there's something you can do. And if you decide maybe America's not for you, then go back to the Czech Republic, but I don't know why you would want to. So the language thing, it really doesn't matter what language you're using. Our only purpose for language is to get our ideas across. And as long as you're able to do that, then it doesn't matter which words you're using to get it done. Right? You just need somebody to know that, uh, the that you're ordering the tacos or find out where the bathroom is or tell them, you know, that they're being an asshole, whatever it is, whatever idea you have to get across, you're just using language as a tool to do it. And it really doesn't matter which tool you use.

I hear what you're saying and maybe you're right that becoming different is, is necessary. I don't want to go back to the Czech Republic. I have my PhD program here. I have a paper under review at a journal that could be really important for my career. and I love what I do here. So I'm not questioning whether I should stay or go, but it's not just about ordering tacos, Luke.

What is it about then?

It's about when my mother told me about my father, the first feeling I had was in English.

Fear, worry, all of it.

It came to me in English words first. And then I had to translate that back into check to tell her how I felt. But that's not how it should work. She's my mother. My father is sick. Yeah, she's your mother.

mother and your father is sick and it doesn't matter which words you use in your mind subconscious or consciously or subconsciously or subconsciously to come to terms with those realities, right? You could speak Papua New Guinea if that's a language and get to the same place. Right? So the words are just a tool to get you to the idea, which is beyond linguistics.

You're right. You're right that the feeling is the same regardless of the language. But what I'm afraid of is that if I keep processing everything in English first, eventually check will just be something I speak when I call home. It won't be how I think anymore. It won't be how I feel. And then when I do go back or when my parents come visit, I'll be a stranger to them. Not because I've changed, because I have changed, yes, but because I won't be able to reach them the same way. The language is not just a tool, Luke. It's connected to who you are.

that and I don't know that I agree with it but I'm not bilingual so I can't I can't really speak to it. I think logically and logically it doesn't really matter what the words are. You're not going to forget check. I mean you grew up speaking that language, it's your native tongue. It's not going to just go away even if it's not the first the first tool that you go to. We are good at what we do every day and if you're speaking in English every day, that's going to be the default for you. That's just, that's how the brain works and that's okay. If you were to move back or spend some time or, you know, fly out to the Czech Republic to spend time with your family and you were re- immersed in that environment, it would come back like riding a bicycle. And Czech would be your default again. Probably you're going to be some mix of both of them. I don't know how that works. It's probably unique to an individual and it also is just, um, kind of rooted in something that I can't explain because I'm not bilingual.

Okay, yes. I think you're probably right about that. The riding a bicycle part, I mean, I know intellectually that's true. I've gone home twice since I came here and Czech does come back. It's just that when I'm here, living here, it feels like it's slipping away a little bit every day. And I guess what I'm really afraid of is that one day I'll call my mother and I won't know how to tell her true. That feels like me.

It's interesting. I just looked up language attrition on Wikipedia, and it talks about how it's common for immigrants and bilinguals to experience a decrease in their first language proficiency, especially when a second language starts to dominate their daily life. It makes perfect sense that that would happen and also that it would feel strange in like a changing of your identity, but it legitimately is a changing of your identity, right? So, So you're going to speak in a way that feels true to you because you are who you are at the moment you're speaking those words. So the words you would use today are not going to be the words that you would use 10 years from now, no matter what language you're speaking. And I don't think you have to have that fear. I understand it. I can see how you got there. And I don't want to make light of it. But I don't think you need to worry about that. When that situation arises, if you get to a point where you can't commute. with your mother, you'll find a way and she will know that it is you. Because she's your mother and mothers know those things.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I think I needed to hear that. I don't know why I called exactly, but I think I needed someone to say that it's okay to change and that it doesn't mean I'm disappearing. That distance is not the same as becoming a stranger.

No, it's not the same. And it's okay to change. And you can call it. growth because you're not it's not your learning in English words so you're losing a check word it's not a one-to-one mapping like that your your fluency and proficiency and one is going to decline as you spend all your time in the other it would with any skill or anything that is learned experience that's that's how we operate that's how we're built to operate and i wouldn't call that um a loss it's it's a growth and it's not um it's okay It's all right and you're doing just fine.

Thank you. I think I needed to hear that too, that it's growth and not a loss. I've been sitting on my bathroom floor for the past hour thinking about this and I couldn't figure out how to feel about it. But maybe, maybe it's okay to be both things at once, to be the person who thinks in English now and still be Petra from Berno.

It is absolutely okay and I bet if you were to have a serious conversation with your parents, which it's probably a good idea to do now before Parkinson's does cause some sort of cognitive decline. I think your parents would be really proud of who you've become and this is what they want for you.

I think you're right. I should call them back tomorrow when it's morning there. Not just to check on my father, but to actually talk to them about this, about what I'm doing here, what I'm becoming. They might understand better than I do. And Luke, thank you for this.

You are very welcome. I'm sorry about your father and yeah, I think that's a good. a good idea you should have these conversations with your mother now so like if your fear comes true and 10 years from now you're having a hard time communicating with her it won't be a sudden thing she'll understand what was happening and you know maybe she can start learning some english too and you guys can talk back and forth and whatever your most comfortable tongue is i think that's a cool thing uh let's see who's next next we've got terry hey terry welcome to the show happy easter sunday to you. Are you celebrating the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your sins so that all your sins may be forgiven?

Hey Luke. Yeah. Happy Easter to you too. I mean, I'm not really, that's not really my thing, but I appreciate it. I'm actually calling because I've got this situation at work and I can't figure out if I'm making a huge mistake or if everyone around me is crazy and I've been up since four in the morning thinking about it. So.

All right, what's going on at work? What's on your mind?

So, I got offered a form and position, more money benefits are better, the whole thing. It's office work mostly, scheduling, managing the younger guys, dealing with paperwork. And everyone, and I mean everyone, Luke, my ex-wife Brenda, my girlfriend Stacy, my buddy Kev, they're all telling me I have to take it. That it's the smart move, you know? Move up the ladder. Stop breaking your back and crawl spaces. And here's the thing. I know they're right. I know that sounds like the move, but I don't want to do it, and I can't explain why without sounding like a complete idiot, which is making me think maybe I am an idiot.

No, I don't think you're an idiot. And I think if for whatever reason your gut tells you you don't want to do it, I mean, you're not saying I'm not sure if I want to do it. You told me I don't want to do it. So you've thought about this, you know you don't want to do it. And that's okay.

Management isn't for everybody.

If you like what you're doing, if you're comfortable in what you're doing, and you have this gut feeling that what you're about to do is the wrong decision, then you don't have to do it.

And it doesn't matter what anybody else tells you or what anybody else thinks, because it's your life and you're the one that has to deal with this day in and day out and uh you want to be as happy and fulfilled as possible if this new job isn't going to do that for you don't take it um that's my advice uh it sounds like you already know what you need to do

yeah but that's the thing though luke that's what i keep telling myself but then i sit with it for like an hour and i start thinking okay but what if i'm just being stubborn what if i'm afraid of change and i'm dressing it up as knowing myself because i can't really point to anything concrete you know i can't really point to anything concrete you know I can't say the money doesn't matter because it does. I can't say I hate the people I work with because I don't. I like most of them fine. Last Thursday I was under a house in this attic crawl space, replacing duct work. It was like 90 degrees up there. I was sweating through my shirt, cursing the whole time and I felt...

You felt what?

Uh, satisfaction?

Yeah, satisfaction.

But like, more than that. I felt happy, like genuinely happy in a way I don't feel anywhere else. And I know that sounds crazy when I'm saying it out loud. But I was thinking about it all weekend and I couldn't shake it. And then I come home and Stacy's like, you have to take this job. And Brenda texts me the same thing and I'm sitting there thinking, how do I tell these people that I felt happy in a crawl space covered in dust and sweat? That doesn't make sense to anyone.

It doesn't have to make sense to anybody because they're not living your life. If that's what brings you happiness, if that's where you find peace and you enjoy that and you're good at it and it's what you like doing, then that's what you should do. You can just talk to the bosses and tell them, hey, I like working in the field. This is where I belong. This is what I want to do right now. And, you know, maybe some years from now that changes when your back hurts or you slip a disc or something like that and you can no longer do the work that makes you happy, then start thinking about being the foreman. But right now, it sounds to me anyway, like you don't want to be the foreman and that's all right. And it doesn't matter if Brenda or anybody else has a problem with it because they don't have to do it.

No, you're right, you're right. I guess I just needed to hear someone say it without trying to fix me or whatever. It's just, Brenda and I, we divorced the first time over money and the second time over communication, and I'm pretty sure those are the same problem wearing different clothes. And now here she is again telling me what I should do with my life. And I'm wondering if I'm just being stubborn about the job because I'm stubborn about her. You know what I mean?

Well, I mean, that makes you sound like an idiot. If you get divorced from the same person two times and you're still deferring to her advice, then yeah, that's stupid. Cut that out. It sounds like she's not the person for you. You tried it out. It failed. You tried it out again. Failed. So I learn your lesson.

Yeah, okay. Fair point. I mean, Stacey's the one who's actually, she's different. She's alarmingly reasonable, which sounds weird to say, but she just gets it without making it into a thing. And she wants me to take the job too, but like, she's not pushing. She just wants me to be happy. That's what she said. So it's not like I'm being stubborn about her specifically. But you're right about Brenda. I need to stop letting her rent space in my head like that.

It's actually pretty common for second marriages to have a higher divorce rate than first ones, sometimes even up to 60, 65%.

Yeah, it makes sense that they would.

Second marriages have a higher divorce rate because, I mean, once you've been through it once, it doesn't seem like such a big deal the next time. It's easier to just throw in the towel, I would assume. But yeah, it doesn't matter. Stacey or Brenda, these are just, These are women in your life. And you, I mean, I wouldn't say you owe them nothing if you're in committed relationships and share household responsibilities and whatever. But, I mean, they're going to be worse off if you're miserable every day for the rest of your life. So don't do that. You don't want to, you don't want to be a foreman. You already know in your gut that you don't want to be a foreman. So just respectfully decline for now. And if the situation changes later, another opportunity will arise.

You know what? helps. I think I've been so worried about making the wrong decision that I didn't stop to think about what making the right decision actually looks like. And you're right. If I'm miserable in an office all day, that doesn't help anybody. Not Stacy, not the company, not me. I'm just going to tell them thanks, but no thanks. I'm going to stay in the field. And maybe down the road, if things change, like you said, another opportunity comes up. But right now, I know where I'm good, and I know where I'm happy. And that's in the crawl spaces and under the houses doing the work.

Well, there you go. It's another happy customer here. We're solved another problem. And good for you. Do what you love. They're not offering you so much more money that it's worth being miserable over. Ladies and gentlemen, this is going pretty well, but unfortunately, it's time for us to take a moment for a word from our sponsors. All right, I'm going to read this ad exactly as they sent it to me, and I want you to know that I have concerns. Phantom Ranch Wellness wants you to know that your gut health starts, and I'm this directly from the card now, from the other end. They make an at-home coffee enema kit. It comes in a box that says wellness inside, on the outside, which I think we can agree, is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. The kit includes a medical-grade silicone bag, organic, single-origin coffee, because apparently the coffee you put in your, that coffee needs to be single origin, a detailed instruction booklet and a com card with a QR code to a guided meditation. for during. During. There's a guided meditation for during. I'm not going to tell you what to do with your body. That's between you and your bathroom and whatever God you answer to. I will say the reviews are disturbingly positive. Four and a half stars. One guy said it has changed his morning routine, which I believe because it would absolutely change your morning routine. Phantom Ranch Wellness. I read the ad. I didn't endorse it. All right, and we're back. Let's see who's next up on our caller line. We're fixing all the world's problems today. That's what we do here, Luke at the Roost. Again, if you'd like to give us a call, the number's 208-439-58-3. Next up on our color line, we've got Marguerite. Marguerite, welcome to the show. How are you on this glorious Sunday, Easter Sunday? Rejoice for his risen.

Hello, Luke. Yes. I'm doing all right. I'm doing fine, actually. I don't usually call. I've been listening for three months now since January, and I've never called, but tonight I'm standing in my kitchen and I need to ask someone something, and there's no one awake who would know the answer.

Well, we'll see what we can do. What is it that you'd like to ask, Marguerite?

My husband's birthday is tomorrow. Would have been tomorrow. He passed in August, so this is his first birthday without him, and And I've made his birthday cake every single year for 48 years. Every year. And I'm standing here right now with my mixer in my bowl, and I can't remember if he liked lemon cake or yellow cake. I know that sounds like such a small thing.

I know it is a small thing.

Well, isn't lemon cake yellow? So it sounds to me like you can't get it wrong. No, that's not. Lemon cake is different. It has the lemon in it, the tartness, cake is just butter and vanilla. They're completely different things.

He would have known the difference. He would have had a preference. I'm standing here and I cannot remember which one he preferred. And I'm terrified, Luke.

Well, that's understandable. It's a hard situation. And all I can tell you is it doesn't, it doesn't matter. Make the cake go through your ritual and that it's for you now. So my recommendation is make the cake that you're going to like better because you're the one that's going to be eating it. And it's, it's, it's more. more about the thought that's going into it, the work you're putting through to it to honor his memory. And that's what matters, not the flavor of the cake. So he's not there to judge, and he's not going to turn up his nose at it, and you're the one that's going to be eating the cake. So make the one that you prefer.

I know you're right. I know that logically. But it's not about the cake loop. It's not really about whether it's lemon or yellow. It's that I'm forgetting him. Small things first, and then what? taught third grade for 46 years, and I kept every drawing every single student ever gave me, 11 shoeboxes in my hall closet, organized by year. I remember things. I'm good at remembering.

Well, this is one of those things where it's not helpful to you to remember all the little details like that. You're not forgetting your husband. You'll never forget your husband. These little minute details, they'll come and go throughout your life. What's happened? is you're going through a grief process and you're growing. I mean, there's some scar tissue there, right? You're moving on. And that's healthy and natural. And that's what you need to do in order to continue living the rest of your life because he's gone now. And cake, lemon, or vanilla, or otherwise is not going to change that.

You're right. I know you're right. But Luke, He used to hum while he watered the tomatoes. Every evening in the summer, he'd go out there with the hose and he'd hum. I can still hear it perfectly. I can hear it right now. And I'm afraid that one day I won't be able to hear it anymore. And that's when I'll know I'm really losing him.

Well, no. See, the thing is, you've lost him. He's gone. He's died. He's no longer there anymore. And he's not humming, and he's not eating cake. And your memories, are pulling back images of him that were meaningful to you. And they're going to come at random times and the thing about the human memory is that it's not accurate. So you're going to have memories eventually coming in that are not true to reality. And you'll swear that that's how he was. And it's not. And that's not any lacking of anything that you're doing. That's just how we're created. And there's probably a good reason for that. We don't know what that reason is, but there's probably a good reason that is focusing on different things. It's looking at how you're going to move forward in this life. Because you're going to need to move forward. And staying, it's good to keep his memory alive, right? You'll always keep his memory alive. But these little details, all these little details, are no longer helpful for your life anymore. And you're going to have to find new ones. And this is making room for those new ones. So I would say you're exactly where you should be. right now. I know that it's difficult to lose somebody like that, and you wish it could be different, but it's not different. This is how it is, and you're on a healing sort of a path, and this is right where you should be right now, and enjoy your cake.

I hear what you're saying. I do. And maybe you're right about all of it. But Luke, he had the most beautiful handwriting. He was a mechanic, and his hands were always dirty, but his handwriting was like leave me notes on the back of receipt paper in cursive, just little things, and I kept them. I kept all of them, and I'm not ready for those details to stop mattering.

Well, you don't have to let all those details start. You still have those. You can look at his handwriting and you can remember him, and over time those details can, should, and will become less important to you as you move on with your life, which you will have to do. What you don't want to happen is to be stuck in the past. and a slave to those memories because they're just memories and there's still a whole lot of life left on the other side, post-husband. It's sad that you lost him, but you did lose him. And nothing's going to bring him back, not his handwriting, not his cake, or not his humming, or tomatoes. Those can all give you warm and fuzzy feelings and memories of him and his legacy, but it's not him. And they're not helpful to you, forward.

I see my daughter on Sundays. We have lunch. She's been very patient with me. And I sold his truck three months ago because I didn't know what else to do with it. And I thought that would help. I thought getting rid of his things would make it easier somehow. But it didn't. It just made the house quieter.

It's interesting what Luke said about memory not being accurate, because studies show that while memory...

Well, memory what? And what was that, Devon?

It's interesting what Luke said about memory not being accurate, because studies show that while memory isn't always perfect, emotional memories, especially during grief, can be particularly prone to distortion. It might not feel like it's helping now, Marguerite, getting rid of his things, but it will over time. This is still very new for you. It just happened last year. It's going to take a long time for this to start not feeling the way it does today. better and your life will go on. But as these things kind of fall off, it will make new room inside you to invite new experiences, new people, new memories.

I know. I understand what you're saying. I do. It's just eight months isn't very long, is it? And I'm awake most nights anyway. I've always been an insomniac. So I found your show in January, and it helped.

It's actually really for people to struggle with the decision of selling a deceased spouse's car. And many widows on forums talk about how emotional and difficult it is, feeling like they're losing them all over again. That's really tough, Marguerite. I just looked up grief and insomnia, and it seems like it's a really common thing. Grief can definitely make sleep problems worse, and then poor sleep can make the grieving process even harder.

Yeah, it's a horrible situation you're in. I'm sorry that happened to you and you're where you're at. But it sounds to me like you're where you need to be and you're progressing through healthy stages of grief. And as time goes on, it'll be a little less and a little less hard. And if you need somebody to talk to, you can call in to us anytime, Marguerite. We're here for you. And you're doing a great job. Just do the best you can do. And move forward because life isn't over for both of you.

Thank you. Thank you both. appreciate that. I think I needed to say it out loud to someone. I needed to hear myself say that I can't remember and that it's okay or that it will be okay. I'm going to make the lemon cake.

Excellent. It will be okay. It is okay. And I hope you really enjoy that lemon cake. I wish I could have some myself. Good luck to you and you keep up the good work. Okay, Marguerite? And we're here for you. Next up, our last caller of the evening is going to be Deb, Deb, welcome to the show.

Happy Easter Sunday. It's the resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who died on the cruise fix for your sins, all of your sins. So you should be thankful and give him praise for that. And what are you doing to celebrate? What are you doing in repentance for your sins and in gratitude for Jesus, great sacrifice for you.

Happy Easter to you too, Luke.

I'm sitting in a parking lot right now, actually. I'll buy the old furs on San Mateo. You know the one? It's been closed for years, but the building still there. I used to bring my daughter here every Friday when she was little.

Okay, and what's got you calling in tonight?

Well, I guess I just needed to talk to somebody. My daughter, she moved to Phoenix eight months ago.

Phoenix?

And she stopped calling. Not right away. It was gradual, you know. One week she'd call and two weeks and nothing for three months now. I know I should probably do something about it. Drive out there, show up at her door, something. But I don't know. know.

Well, I don't know about driving out there and showing up at her door. That's a bit much, but maybe just giving her a call and saying, hey, how's it going? I miss you. That's enough, I think.

I know. I know that's what I should do. Everyone tells me that my neighbor said the same thing last week. Just call her, Deb. Just pick up the phone. What if she doesn't want to hear from me? What if that's why she stopped? I don't want to. I don't want to push myself on her if she's trying to get away.

No, I don't think that's what's happening. She's just growing up and she's moved to the city. and she's got a new life there. It's only been eight months. It hasn't been very long. She's getting settled and she's working into new routines and she's got a new social circle and there's a lot of things going on in our life. And I think that happens to everybody as their children get older.

Yeah. Yeah, I suppose that's true. I know she's got her own life now. I'm not stupid about that. It's just I still buy two cans of soup every week. The same kind she liked.

Tomato soup?

And I only eat one can. The other one just sits. there in the cupboard.

Well, it sounds to me like you've got some time where you don't have to buy soup, so you're stocked up for a while, and that's not a bad thing.

I guess not. I just, I keep thinking maybe she'll call and say she's coming home, and I'll have it ready. Or maybe I'll finally work up a nerve to drive out there and I'll bring some with me. I don't know. It's silly. My husband used to call me the keeper of useless time because of all my clocks. I've got three in the kitchen, all set different.

Well, that is a weird thing, and again I'm going to recommend that you don't just up on her door, you don't know that she's home, you don't know that she's not with somebody. That's a bit, that's too much. Just give her a call and see what's going on. And she's probably, it's unlikely she's just going to show up on your doorstep. She's going to call you first and make sure you're home. So there's some logistic things here. You live a good distance apart. You each have your own respective lives. And there's a scheduling component that has to happen if you're going to do these things.

You're right. You're right. I know all that. I have her address memorized. The whole thing. But I've never even looked it up on a map, you know? I don't even know exactly where it is in Phoenix. I just know the numbers and the street name. It's like I'm keeping it in my head but not really letting myself think about it too hard.

Well, what are you doing to occupy yourself now that you've got this empty nest syndrome going on? Like you've got a whole lot of time now that you didn't have before and you've got somebody that was important to you that's no longer around that you can talk to. So what steps have you taken to fill your time? in a productive way.

I'm retired now. I was an administrative clerk for the Navajo Nation for a long time. So I've got plenty of time, maybe too much. I go to church on Sundays. I do some volunteer work at the senior center a couple days a week. I read, I keep my house up. I'm not just sitting around doing nothing, if that's what you're asking. But it's not the same. When she was here, I had a reason to get up in the morning.

Okay, well, I mean, that's exactly what I'm saying. It does sound like. you're sitting around doing pretty much nothing for the majority of your time. You need to give yourself another reason to get up in the morning, which could be those volunteer classes. It could be classes that you're taking in drawing or paint or dance or whatever it is. But you need a reason for yourself to get up that is not somebody else because you can't depend on somebody else to be that for you forever.

I hear what you're saying. I do. But that's not really why I call tonight, Luke. I didn't call to talk about what I should be doing with my time. I called because I just needed to talk to someone who wouldn't tell me what to do. Everyone's got advice. My neighbor, my sister, now you. And I appreciate it. I do. But what I really want to know is if I was a good mother.

Well, none of us are the ones that can tell you if you were a good mother, because I wasn't there. You're going to have to talk to your daughter about that and ask her directly if you were a good mother. And it seems like the type of thing that you should know. Did you do your best? Did you try your hardest? Do you think you were a good mother? Or did you fall about the wayside? Does she leave for some specific reason to get away from you? Maybe she did. I don't know. You haven't given us that context. But if you're going to call a radio show for advice, don't get upset when you get advice.

I'm not upset. I'm not. You're right. You're right. I did do my best. I know I did. We had our Fridays at the Furs. And I was there for her school things. And when her father passed, I held it together for her sake. I did all that. So yes, I think I was a good mother. I think I was.

Wait, first cafeteria, I just looked it up, and it was a chain that started in New Mexico in 1946 and finally closed its last location in 2021. So Fridays at the FERS is definitely a blast from the past.

Well, I mean, there you go.

You've got your answer. You are as good a mother as you could be, and you didn't do anything wrong here unless there's something you're not telling us. And this is just a natural progression of life. And you're lonely. And that's okay. But if you want to want to not be as lonely and not be freaking out and thinking about just showing up on people's doorsteps, then, yeah, my advice stands. Go find something to fill your time with.

Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. And you're right about the furs. Those were good times. I'm glad your intern looked that up. It's nice to know someone remembers those places existed.

All right, Deb. Well, good luck to you and good luck to your daughter and happy Easter to everybody all around. That's going to be the end of our show. Devon, how do you think it went tonight?

I think we had some pretty good calls today. I felt pretty good about it. What about you?

Yeah, Luke, I thought it crushed. Silas tying into the Easter resurrection vibes was gold. And those stories we dug into had the lines lighting up like nobody's business. Felt like we hit that sweet spot where it's weird but real, you know? Makes me want to stick around longer than my internship, if that makes sense. What was your favorite bit?

Oh, I like talking to Silas. He's always a good time. It's interesting to me what's going on down there at the well. spring. I like that Silas thinks about his leadership. He's pretty insecure. And he calls to get advice about whether he's being a good cult leader. And I think that's great. I think that I'm really the most qualified person around to give him that advice. And I'm really honored that he would, he would take my advice to his commune and use it to better the lives of his people. Yeah. So it was pretty good. Your internship, though, We'll talk about that when we get there. You can't invite yourself to the studio. We'll have to come up with a new arrangement when your internship is over, all right?

Yeah, Silas is the best.

That guy's got the self-awareness of a therapist and the commune drama of a soap opera.

Loves hearing you drop wisdom on him. Honored He'd loop in your advice, too, feels like we're indirectly running a better wellspring. Got it on the internship, no worries. I'll just keep crushing it behind the scenes till then.

Anything else to wrap the night, like pulling final caller stats or queuing tomorrow's life? lineup. Nah, I don't think we need no stats. We're crushing it all the way across the board. I'll tell you that. We've got the highest of the listenership we've ever had, which is way, it's catastrophic. It's to the moon. Just like we are almost there. We'll be on the moon tomorrow. You know, I stepped outside last night and I looked up in the moon, and it was different. It was different because I know that there's a fucking shuttle with people almost there, like more than halfway there. And in a couple of days when I look up at the moon, there's going to be. be actual humans standing on it. And that's pretty cool. You know, I didn't care. I read the news articles and everything. And I'm like, yeah, whatever, somebody's going to the moon. It's not me. But yesterday when I went outside and I looked up at the moon, it hit me a little bit differently. And I was like, wow, we're up there. Yeah, Luke, Artemis 2's on Flight Day 5 right now. Launched the first with those four astronauts looping the moon in real time after all these years, staring up and knowing humans are almost orbiting it again. That's straight up sci-fi turning real, chills like the resurrection stuff we were on earlier. Kind of makes late night radio feel small but epic at the same time. You want to cue any space callers for tomorrow or call it? I'm going to call it. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for tuning in to another Luke at the Roost, and we're going to talk to you again tomorrow.