Episode 57: Trace's Box of Family Secrets

All right, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to Luke at the Roost. I'm Luke. I'm your host for tonight's radio show. And this is the call-in late-night radio show where you can give us a call and talk about whatever's going on in your life. And I'll give you the very best advice that I can. Today is Tuesday, June 2nd. And we're broadcasting from our new studio. Alpine, Texas, proudly serving West Texas because we're Texans now. Everything is bigger here. So I've heard. If you'd like to give us a call, the number is 208-439-58-3-3-3. That's 208-439 Luke. Let's check in with our faithful intern, Devon, here, and see how his move up to Alpine was. Hey, Devon, welcome back to the show. How was your move up to Alpine?

little earlier, but we had a couple of hiccups, so we had to start over. So tell the people what it was like moving from New Mexico over to Texas.

It was all right, mostly just the drive in my 2009 Civic with the Czech engine light on the whole time from New Mexico. Got everything unpacked, and the booth set up without too much hassle once I landed here. The landlord's already talking about the walls having some kind of energy, though, which is something.

Have you noticed anything weird about the energy in the place? Is there, are there any voices coming from the wall or anything like that?

Not really anything like voices yet, though the landlord's energy talk is making me side-eyed the walls a little. It reminds me of this one apartment where the vents made this low humming noise that felt way too personal, but it was probably just old plumbing or something. I'll keep an ear out, though.

Yeah, there's some noise in this room. This room sounds a little bit server running in the background, which is being quite a bit of noise. You probably won't hear it in this broadcast because I have noise filters and stuff like that. But it's driving me crazy, so we're going to have to get some acoustic treatment on the walls.

Yeah, empty rooms, echo everything weirdly like that. The server hum probably starts feeling like it's watching you after a while.

Well, it's a big NAS with, I think, eight spinning discs in it, so it's just crunching all the time. It's pretty loud. I used to have it tucked away. in a closet in the RV, but now it's in the same room with me, so I can hear it all day.

Yeah, eight drives would make that constant crunching feel like it's right in your ear all day. I don't know if this helps, but maybe some foam panels or moving it back into a closet could cut it down.

Yeah, I mean, I'll get to maybe moving it, but I think I'm going to do some wooden slats on the wall for reflections, and then maybe some panels to my sides and the back wall. We'll see. chill out on the spending a little bit. It was a bit steep getting up here and getting everything I needed. I had to furnish the whole house. So I got to cut off my Amazon buy clicking.

Yeah, moving costs add up quick. Wooden slats could look pretty sharp in there too.

You're damn right, they look pretty sharp. I'm a sharp fella.

Oh yeah, sharp fella for sure. I like the wooden slats idea a lot. If you need me to look up some

All right, well, like I said, I'm all moved in. I went to the registry today and surrendered my South Dakota driver's license. I'm going to get myself a brand new shiny Texas license. Both glorious states in which you don't have to pay income tax. So those are why I chose them. But unfortunately, in Texas, I do have to get a sticker for my vehicles. That's annoying. You didn't have to do that in South Dakota. I don't think it's a thing. Like, they don't care that my truck is deleted. or anything like that? This is Texas, but they just want their $35 or whatever it is for each of the vehicles.

Yeah, that tracks with what I remember from when I moved out here from New Mexico. The sticker thing is annoying, but at least it's not income tax. If you want me to double-check the current fee or any exemptions for deleted trucks, I can pull that up quick.

That's all right, buddy. I got all that handled. No need to worry about it. And let's get on with the show, shall we? So it looks like Silas is already calling in. Our first new studio, Silas is back. Hopefully he's got his memory back. Last time he called in, he was a little bit confused about who he was, and he thought he'd never called us before. It was very strange, but let's check in with Silas. Silas, welcome back to the show. How are you feeling, buddy? The last time you called in, you were a bit confused. Are you back in action now?

Brother, I am sitting in a truck on FM 170, looking at 11 tents and a flatbed full of soap molds. and I need to ask you something in front of all these good people listening. And no, I am not back in action. I think I may have made a very large mistake.

Oh, that doesn't sound good. Well, tell us what's going on. What's up, brother?

The deed has a lien on it. $14,000 owed to a fencing contractor in Presidio from a previous owner who ran a hunting lease operation and just walked away in 2019. Missed it. The title company says 60 to 90 days before this land is legally ours, and I have people sleeping in cars at a pullout right now, Luke, in their cars. And a man named Dob has been driving past the camp twice a day in a truck. And two nights ago, he fired a rifle into the air, said it was a javelina.

You mean a havelina? Uh, oh, what's the, what do you mean in Presidio? I thought you were endemming. What are you doing all the way over here in West Texas?

We made the move. Three days ago, four vehicles, a flatbed borrowed livestock trailer. Eleven people in the advance party. We were supposed to be starting fresh out here near Tellingua. You remember what happened with Marcus, with all of it. I told myself the Deming land was poisoned by everything that went wrong there, and we needed new ground. Forty people total. Some still back in Deming waiting on word from me. Some already here in tents on land that. may not legally be ours yet. And Presidio is where the contractor is based. The man who's owed the money.

Oh, all right. Well, I mean, for the people that may not be aware, Tulingua is an interesting place. It's out right by Big Bend. It's an old ghost town. And there's a place there called the Terlingua Ranch, which is just a bunch of raw open land that they sell off in five to 20 acre parcels. So there's a bunch of people out there in, um, in tiny homes and off-grid setups and building their own pallet containers, kind of like, uh, you'd see in Touse with the earthships and stuff. There's a bunch of weirdos out there and artists, and, uh, it's a pretty cool place. So I think that's a perfect little place for the Wellspring. You're bringing the, you're bringing the whole clan over there, the, the whole brotherhood. I forget what you call them, the flock.

The community. We don't use flock. But yeah, you're right. But on paper, it sounds perfect. That's exactly why I chose it. Artists, off-grid folks, people who've already opted out of a conventional grid. I thought we'd find neighbors who understood what we're building. And maybe we still will. But right now, the only neighbor making himself known is dub and his rifle. Here's what's eating me, though, Luke. Seven people have already left. Use the title delay as the reason, which I don't blame them. That's a legitimate reason.

Yeah, that's not a bad reason. And it's to be expected. I mean, there are people that I'm sure they liked New Mexico and they wanted to stay there and this was a good excuse to move on and start a new life. That's okay. You're going to find plenty of new people that are more aligned with what it is you're trying to do there, which remind the people of West Texas what it is you're trying to do there.

The couple who left, they ran our soap curing room. That's not a small thing. We have an entire production batch on that flag. that nobody knows how to finish now. That's our income stream, Luke. That's how we feed people.

But honestly, that's not. That's not the thing keeping me up. I'm sleeping in this truck, cab every night instead of in the communal area. Because we do a nightly circle sharing feelings about the move, and I cannot sit in that circle and look at these people. Because I know why I really pushed this move so hard and so fast. And it wasn't because the land spoke to me, because Terlingua was the right next step for the community.

So I just looked up Terlingua, and it was a major mercury mining town back in the day. That's why it's a ghost town now. Okay, well, if you didn't think Terlingua was the right next step, why did you push the move? Was it just to be closer to us here and look at the roost?

I pushed it because I needed to outrun what happened with Marcus, with Kara before him, with all of it. I sat with that at two in the morning about. six weeks ago, and I told myself it was vision, it was calling, it was the community needing new soil, but it was me needing to not wake up every morning. On the same land where I'd spent years convincing myself, I was a guide when I was actually just, I was managing people, keeping them close, because I needed them close. And I put that on 38 people and pointed them at the desert, and called it a fresh start.

And Devon's right about the mercury, by the way. It's crazy how much mercury they pulled out of there. The mineral terlinguate was actually discovered there.

Terlinguate? I've never heard of that mineral.

Yeah, well, you know, the stream goes where it goes, right? So maybe you were led there. And it doesn't matter how or why, but now you're going to end up in a new place, and you've got your community with you, and you're going to see what happens. And sometimes the current, drags you in a direction you never knew you were going to go.

I hear you. And six weeks ago, I would have grabbed onto that and turned it into a teaching for the circle. The stream goes where it goes. That's beautiful, I would have said that at dinner. And everyone would have nodded, but I've been trying to stop doing that. Taking something that sounds true and using it to close a question that should stay open. What I actually need to ask you, and I'm asking you in front of everyone listening right now, because I can't ask the 30-some people who are depending on me to already know the answer. Is it weakness to turn around? If I said to these people tomorrow morning, the land isn't clear, seven of us have already left. We don't have anyone to finish the soap badge, and I think we should go back to Deming and wake this out properly. Is that a failure? Or is that just? Is that just honest?

Well, you know, I don't think it's that big of a deal. You've got 90 days to close that title. I'm sure you have some. kind of title insurance in case something comes up and how much could those taxes possibly be on a hunting lease? You know, I'm sure you can find somebody in Turlingua that knows how to make soap. That's exactly the type of thing that is going on out there. So I think if you want to push forward, you can do that. Also, if you want to go back to Deming and wait, it's not that big of a deal. It's, what, six hours away? So you could turn around and go back to Deming and crash there and not have somebody shooting off a rifle while you can also just push through. And that would be okay, and it will all work out if it's supposed to. Worst case is you set up shop on the land and then have to move again.

The lien isn't taxes. It's 14,000 to a fencing contractor. And I actually, I could probably pay it myself and clear it faster than 90 days. That's not the wall. You said something, though. You said it'll work out if it's supposed to. And I've been the person. who says things like that for a long time. And I need to ask you straight. Do you actually believe that? Or is that just the thing you say at one in the morning to someone who's scared? Because I'm trying to figure out the difference between those two things right now. And I'm not sure I trust my own read on it anymore.

Well, I mean, you and I have been here on this earth for a minute now, right? And we're still here. And we've been through all sorts of things. Everybody listening to this show has. And, uh, It is Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026, and we're still here. We're fine. We're functional. We can talk and listen and see the sunsets and the sunrises. And none of the tax liens or fence contract, none of that really matters at the end of the day. Nothing is life changing about this situation. And things, they never feel like they're going to work out in the moment. But then after you get past them, over and over and over again. It's proved itself. When you get through the thing that sucked, you can usually, in hindsight, see that you've ended up in a better place and things did work out the way they were supposed to work out. And that's tough to see when you're in the moment. But afterwards, you'll find that you're going to meet people you otherwise wouldn't have meant. You're going to have opportunities. You otherwise wouldn't have had. And you're going to find yourself in a different way than you would have had you stayed where you were.

You know, what I can see from this truck right now, the Cheezos Mountains. Just sitting there in the dark, lit up a little by the moon, and I've been staring at them for three nights and feeling nothing, which is how I know I'm in trouble, because I am a person who feels things when I look at mountains. That's always been true. And right now they're just rocks. that's the real diagnostic for me not the lean not dub not the soap the mountains aren't doing anything for me and they should be

you're right that i'll get through it the chesos mountains are actually the only mountain range in the united states that's entirely contained within a national park well i mean it sounds like you might be a little bit depressed silas and that's okay that happens to people and you've got a lot on your mind you've got a bunch of people that are looking to you for the answers and you don't have the answers and that's to be expected. So I wouldn't worry too much about not feeling anything about the Chesos Mountains. With all due respect, they're not that impressive to look at. I mean, there's a lot nicer mountain ranges than the Chisos Mountains, but there are cool things to look at. And, you know, I don't think it matters. If you want to go back to Deming, go back to Deming. If you don't want the expense and the hassle of doing that, then go set up on and take care of the $14,000 you can come up with. If you need to borrow $14,000, you can do that. You've got enough people there that you can scrape up together, you know, $14,000 to clear the title. It's not an issue. I think you're thinking too much about this. So stop that. And just move on and talk to your people and set up shop and see what your new lives are going to look like. And you guys can work together to figure out what you want that to be. Talk to your people.

That's the. part. That's the part I've been sitting in this truck cab avoiding for three nights. I told myself after Marcus that I was going to stop being the person who has all the answers and starts making decisions for everyone because it feels cleaner that way. And then the first real test of that, and I'm sleeping alone in a Ford F-250 because I can't face a circle of people who might ask me questions I don't know how to answer. That's not leadership. That's not leadership. just a different shape of the same problem.

You're right. That's not leadership. So cut the shit and stop being a pussy and talk to your people and figure out what everybody wants to do. It's not that hard. And you're capable of that. So, I mean, you're starting to be a little bit annoying if we're being honest with the second guessing yourself. If you want to be a leader, be a leader. Even if you don't want to be a leader, be a leader. Man up and make a decision.

And if it's the wrong decision, then reverse course. You'll find that out. But make a decision and stop being paralyzed by your own inadequacy. Your, I don't know, trust yourself. Trust yourself or don't. And if you can't be the leader for these people, then elect a new one.

Yeah, yeah, okay. That landed. I needed that more than I needed the mountain speech. No offense to Devon and the National Park facts. You're right. I have been annoying. I can feel it even in myself. The way I keep circling the same drain and dressing it up in spiritual language. So it sounds like searching instead of stalling. Okay, I'm going to get out of this truck. I'm going to walk over to that communal tent, and I'm going to wake some people up. And I'm going to say, here is where we actually are. Here is what I actually know. Here is what I don't know. And then I'm going to let them. talk.

Well, I don't know that you have to wake them up in the middle of the night for this conversation. This is something that could wait till morning. So why don't you go to bed, get yourself some sleep, have some coffee in the morning, and call together a meeting. Like a normal, civilized person.

That's fair. I was about to make it dramatic again. That's the other thing I do. Okay. Morning. Coffee. Meeting. I can do that. Luke, I appreciate you. You and Devon both.

All right, brother. Good luck to you in the community. And I hope it all works out. Give us a call back some other time. You know, not tomorrow. But let us know how it works out. Do what you got to do. And stop, stop stalling. It's annoying. And it's definitely not leadership.

Okay.

Next up on our caller line, we've got Darlene.! Welcome to the show. How can we help you tonight? What's going on in your life?

I did something legal and I cannot sleep. And I need somebody to tell me if that means I'm a bad person or just a person who did a bad thing. because those feel really different right now.

Okay. What did you do?

I'm a landman. 19 years. I negotiate oil and gas leases in the Permian Basin. I sit across the table from landowners and I get them to sign over mineral rights to my clients, the operators. And six weeks ago, I got an elderly woman to sign a lease. And I walked her through every single term. I was patient. I was kind. I answered every question she had. And I did not tell. I was tell her that two days before she signed, a competing company had offered nearly double what my client was paying her. I wasn't required to. Legally, ethically by my professional standards, I represent the lessee.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, why would you tell her that? You have a job to do, and that was your job. So, I mean, it's unfortunate that she could have made more money on that deal, but she also could have had somebody representing her interests. She must have known or her family must have known that you were not there to represent her interests.

That's what I told myself. That's exactly what I told myself driving home that day. She's a sophisticated enough adult to know I work for the operator. It's disclosed. It's in the paperwork. And you're right. She could have hired her own landman. She could have called an attorney. But here's the thing, Luke. The well came in strong last week. And her daughter called my office and she was crying.

The Permian Basin in the United States is actually one of the largest oil and natural gas producing regions in the world. Stretching across West Texas and southeast New Mexico. Well, I mean, not to sound harsh, but what's that got to do with you? Why is her daughter calling your office? You're a landman and your job is to negotiate those leases. And that's exactly what you did. So if they got screwed on this, deal. That is on them. They're adult people that know what they're getting into. And you did not misrepresent anything or, um, or I don't think you did anything wrong here. You did your job to the best of your ability. And they agreed. And if they have buyers remorse now, that's really on them.

I know. I know all of that. And I've done this a hundred times and I've never lost a night of sleep. over it. But this woman, her name is Mrs. Fuentes. She's in her late 70s. She's a widow. And the gap between what she got and what that other offer would have paid her is $34,000. That's not nothing to her. That's probably not nothing to most people. And I have this card. My dad gave me this phrase, he ran a small pump jack operation his whole life. Never cheated anybody.

Well, you didn't cheat anybody either. And just because there is a larger, offer on the table doesn't mean it would have gone through or gone through for that. You know, had she gone for the for the larger offer, it could have been too good to be true. You know, they could have not had the money to back it up. They could have had other issues that were not disclosed. So you don't know. I mean, what's the saying? One in the bush is better than two in the pen or some shit like that. She got paid. I assume a fair price for, for, what she's given you.

She got paid the market rate. She got paid what I would have told anyone was a fairly six weeks ago. And yeah, you're right. I don't know what would have happened with the other offer. But I do know it was a major operator, not some fly-by-night, and I know that well came in strong. And I know that if she'd had $34,000 more, she'd have $34,000 more. The card says, do right. That's the phrase, my dad's phrase. And I have been flipping it face down on my visor every more this week because I cannot look at it.

No, you have to ask yourself, if you offered her the market rate and she took the market rate, why would somebody come in at double that? That's fishy, right? That doesn't sound right on its surface. So there's something going on there that you were unaware of. You are unaware of, and she's unaware of. And maybe she could have got a 34 extra grand. Maybe she doesn't need 34 extra grand. Maybe she doesn't need 34 extra grand. Who knows? But what I'm telling you is that you did your job the correct way. You didn't screw anybody. You didn't do wrong. And you're not a bad person. You did your job.

Luke, I hear you. And part of me called tonight hoping you'd say exactly that so I could go to sleep. But here's what I can't get past. The reason the major operator came in hire isn't fishy. That happens all the time out here. Different companies have different models, different cost structures, can afford bigger bonuses because they're playing a longer game. It wasn't too good to be true. It was just better. And I knew that when I sat across from her. And I keep coming back to. I could make this right. I could call the daughter back and make up the difference out of my own commission.

I tried to look up how much commission landmen usually make, but the search didn't go through. No, you can't. That doesn't even make sense. If the offer was double, you obviously didn't get 100, percent commission on that deal? Or did you? Because if you did, then that's not doing right. If you're making 100% commission off of these leases, then that's insane. So no, you shouldn't pay out of your own pocket to make it right. It was right. You put a deal in front of her. She assessed that deal and took it. And that's all there is to it.

I didn't make anywhere near 34,000 on this deal. It would hurt. But I could do it. And I know why I haven't called her back. And it's not just the liability question. It's, I have a client I've worked with for 10 years, a man I genuinely like. And if I make that daughter hole, he is going to find out. This is a small world out here. And I will lose that relationship.

No, you don't need to do anything to make anything right. You made it right. You got them $34,000 for a lease on land they weren't using. And so it wasn't the best deal out there. They could have shopped around and they didn't. And you weren't misrepresenting. anything, even if you knew there was a larger offer out there.

It's not your job to get them the most money possible. It's your job to get the lease. And that's what you did. So that's what I have to say to you. You can go to sleep. You didn't do anything wrong. You did your job well. You did it kind. And you didn't screw anybody there. If anything, they screwed themselves. And that's not on you. The bonus wasn't 34,000. The gap between what she got and what she could have gotten is 34, is 34,000. She got paid.

Yes, but Luke, she cried at me, not at the situation, at me specifically. And I have been doing this job for 19 years. And nobody has ever cried at me and I cannot make it stop echoing.

Well, you can't control people's emotions. So anybody could cry at you for any reason. And they will. And they do. So if every time somebody cries, it makes you go into your pocket to come up with $34,000, you're going to be a very broke person.

It wasn't the daughter crying that broke me. It was what she said. She said her mother trusted you. That's it. That's the whole sentence. Her mother trusted you. And she's right.

What do you want me to tell you, darling? Do you want me to tell you that you're an asshole and you screwed these people? If that's what you want, that's what I'll tell you. Okay? So you're a piece of shit and you screwed this lady at a $34,000 and you should go into your own pocket and take that money and pay them back. Is that what you want to hear? Because, um, okay, that's what I'm telling you.

No, that's not, I don't want absolution and I don't want to be torn apart either. I want somebody to tell me what the human thing to do is. Not the legal thing. I know the legal thing. Not the professional thing. The human thing. Because I have a laminated card on my visor that I have been flipping face down every single morning this week. And I need to know if I should flip it back over or throw it out the window.

Well, you did the human thing. All right. And you were kind. You gave them market rate. And if somebody else had more money. That wasn't the person you worked for. You weren't authorized to offer them more money. And you also are not, uh, uh, it wouldn't have been right for you to go in there and say, you know what? You shouldn't take this lease because this other company is going to offer you more. That could have got them in a situation. You don't know what would have happened had they gone with that situation. And $34,000 is not life changing money, okay, to anybody. It's a good chunk of change. Maybe she could have bought a car. Great. But it's, it's not changing any lives. It's not sending anybody into retirement. And just if they wanted the absolute most money possible, then they should have got themselves a lawyer and they should have done their research. And they did not. And that's not on you. So go to bed and forget about this. And if they cry at you, then that's them crying at you. Really, they should be crying at themselves for not doing their due diligence on a massive land deal.

$34,000 is not life-changing, money to you or me maybe. But I've woman's house, Luke. I've seen how she lives. And I'm sitting here realizing that I have been telling myself for 19 years that the system is fair because everyone knows the rules. And what I actually mean is everyone who can afford to know the rules knows the rules. And Mrs. Fuentes didn't know the rules. And I did.

Well, if your job is to explain the rules to Mrs. Fuentes and you did not do that, then that's on you. The best you should, you should. could do is, uh, don't do anything, you know, move forward. And, uh, if, if they got screwed out of 34,000, they got screwed out of 34,000, but they didn't, they didn't get screwed. You gave them the market rate. The market rate is the market rate. Um, and the best you can do is going forward, be a little, uh, quicker to be more careful about explaining the rules and making sure they know what they're getting into and what their other options are.

That's the first thing you've said tonight, I might actually be able to use going forward. But it doesn't fix her. And I think that's what I've been circling around this whole call. I can be better going forward. And Mrs. Fuentes still gets exactly what she got. And I have to decide if I can live with that or if I'm going to do something about it that might cost me a client and might open me up to liability and will definitely hurt and is probably the only way I'm going to be able to flip that card back over.

Well, you sound like an idiot, if that's what you're thinking. And I don't have anything else to say to you. because I've given you the best advice I possibly can, which is do not go into your own pocket and pay this lady. Because you didn't do anything wrong. You didn't do anything to deserve that financial hit. And she didn't do anything to deserve your money. So cut it out.

Yeah. Okay. I hear you. Thank you for taking my call.

You're welcome. And just don't do it. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for a word from one of our sponsors. We've got some new sponsors here. And let's hear from our brand new sponsors, Apex Rewards. Imagine a credit card that pays you to use it. Now imagine the fine print. Now imagine not reading it. Welcome to Apex. The Apex Rewards card offers 5% cash back on rotating and 1% on everything else, which is most things. Points accumulate in a separate dashboard that requires a different login than your main account for reasons our security team insists are necessary and our UX team is stopped fighting. Redeem points for travel, statement credits, gift cards, or merchandise from the Apex marketplace where a $40 blender costs 18,000 points. And there is no math you can do that makes this a good deal. We know. We did the math. We're counting on you not to. Apex carries no annual fee. for the first year, then $95 annually thereafter, build in a month you won't be paying attention. The APR is somewhere between 19 and 29% depending on a credit check we will run and the mood we will be in. Apply at apexrewards.card. Roos listeners receive a sign-up bonus of 60,000 points, redeemable for approximately one round-trip flight to a city you didn't want to visit. Apex rewards. You earned this. You earned all of this. Thanks to Apex Rewards for, uh, for sponsoring the show tonight. Next up on our caller list, we've got Crispin. Crispin, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life? And if I give you any advice about what's going on in your life, are you going to listen to me? Because nobody else does.

I have until Friday to decide whether to torpedo my career or let someone I genuinely cared about find out I turned her into a character. And I don't know, Luke. a radio show at whatever time it is. So my judgment is clearly not great right now.

Well, what are you talking about? Turn somebody into a character.

I write fiction. I'm in the MFA program up here at Sol Ross. And I wrote a story, a pretty good story, actually. My advisor says, it's the best thing I've done. But it's about a woman I dated last year. Real argument, real details, real her. Just with the names changed and enough sense. surface stuff shuffled around that I can technically say it's fiction. A literary journal accepted it. It comes out in three weeks. And I just, I've been sitting here tonight thinking about the moment she reads it.

Yeah, well, that's a little bit sketchy, maybe unethical. I'm not sure. I'm not an author myself, but I assume most characters and most books are modeled off of a real person. Otherwise, uh, well, unless you're talking about like Lord of the Rings or fucking Harry Potter or fiction like that. But who you use for inspiration is who you use for inspiration, as long as you weren't using her name or details that are identifiable about her. Yes, she might be pissed off. I'd be pissed off if somebody modeled me. And I, especially if I didn't get any credit for my likeness or, um, or, you know, financial compensation.

That's not super cool. But what makes you think she's going to read the book anyway?

She works on Holland Avenue. We have mutual friends. Those mutual friends overlap directly with the visiting writer series My program runs. There is, and I have thought about this very carefully. There is essentially no universe where she doesn't find out. Someone will send it to her. Someone will think they're doing her a favor, or she'll just stumble into it because Alpine is not a big place, Luke. And the other thing is, it's not just that she's recognizable.

What kind of details are we talking about? Would your friends know that it's her? Or would just she know that it's her?

Both. That's the thing. Our mutual friends were there for the context. They know we dated. They know things were complicated. They know she was wrestling with whether to stay in Alpine or leave. And the scene in the story, the central scene, it's an argument about exactly that. And she told me that stuff at the coconut ballpark at dusk, like it was private, like it was just between us. And I wrote it down. Not that night, but I wrote it down.

Oh, Kokernot Field. I just looked it up. And it's been called the best little ballpark in Texas by Sports Illustrated. That's a pretty famous place for a private conversation.

Yeah, I mean, Coconut Field, I keep seeing on Facebook. There's a drum circle there on Saturday. and I think Wednesdays at 7.30 p.m. I haven't been there myself. I'm not really a ballpark kind of guy, but I might check out that drum circle.

Anyway, back to your situation here. It sounds like maybe you should reach out to this woman and let her know what happened and ask how she feels about it before you publish the book. That would be the kind thing to do, the right thing to do. And if she doesn't want it published, then don't publish it.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, I know that's the right answer. I do. But here's where it gets complicated. My thesis advisor already submitted this piece as part of a fellowship application. It's already in. The piece is already attached to my name in a system I can't pull it back from in that context. So, even if I withdraw it from the journal, the damage to her, if there is damage, might already be done on some level. And calling her means having a conversation I have been avoided. for six months. It means admitting what I did.

Yeah, well, I mean, it doesn't sound like it's that bad a thing if all you were talking about is whether this woman wanted to stay or leave the city that she's in. It's not super personal or super private or scary. You didn't use her name. I don't, I don't think it sounds like something that would piss somebody off that much. I mean, maybe superficially, but it doesn't sound like you're going to negatively affect. her career opportunities or make people look at her differently or anything like that. She might just be annoyed that you used her likeness and her story as your own.

It's not just the leaving Alpine thing. That's the frame of the scene. The argument itself gets, it gets intimate. She says things in the story that she said to me in real life about feeling stuck, about feeling like she'd made choices that diminished her. That's not the kind of thing you want showing up in a journal where your friends and neighbors can read it and go, oh, that's her.

Yeah, well, I'm not convinced that they could go, oh, that's her, because everybody has had times when they felt stuck or made choices that diminished them. That's the human experience. That's not anything specific to her. So you used her and you feel like you used her. And maybe the right thing to do is to talk to her about that, admit that, and see how she feels about it. But I, I think, think if anybody reads this, they're not going to know that that's her. They're going to, they're going to use themselves as the proxy, because those are pretty universal concepts and feelings.

You might be right about strangers, but the scene is set at a baseball field at dusk in a small town, and she has a very specific verbal tick that I put in the character's mouth without even thinking about it, just because it was true, because it was her. And I didn't catch it until the galleys came back, That's when I started panicking. That's actually what triggered all of this.

It doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me, sir. You didn't reveal anything that was super private. You had a conversation at a ballpark. You know, anywhere in America, somebody could have a private conversation at a ballpark. Every teenager in the world has had a private conversation at a ballpark. So that's a very universal thing. It's not particularly damning or damaging. And it's not hurtful or slanderous or revealing. So just talk to her. Just tell her you did it and you don't feel good about it and ask her, you know, how she wants to proceed.

Yeah, I hear you. And I think part of me called tonight hoping someone would say exactly that, that it's not that bad, that I'm spiraling, that the piece is good and I should let it go. But I also know that I didn't call her before I submitted it. I didn't ask. I just, I decided for her that it would be fine, or that she'd never see it. And I'm not sure which of those I actually believed.

It doesn't matter which one and you believed. What matters is how you're going to deal with it now. It's obviously bothering you, and you know what the right thing to do is. So just give her a call, have that conversation, and this could be a non-issue. Maybe she'll be honored that she's now immortalized in a piece of writing that nobody will ever read. I don't think a lot of people. People are reading literary journals outside the literary journal world, which is not particularly huge. So don't worry about it so much. Do the right thing so that you can sleep at night and call this what it is. A mistake that you made. And don't do it again. That's all.

Yeah. That's probably the most sensible thing anyone said to me about this. And I've been workshoping the guilt for weeks. Nobody in my program is going to tell me to pull it. all, we're all kind of trained to protect the work first. So, yeah, I'll call her. Before Friday. I'll call her before Friday. I just needed someone outside of all of it to say the obvious thing out loud.

Well, there you go. That's me. I say the obvious thing out loud. Good luck with that. And I can't tell you that the work is good or not good because I haven't read the work and I'm not going to read the work. But I'm sure it's fine. And I'm sure it's not that good deal. So next up on our color line, we've got Rosamund. Rosamund. Welcome to the show. What's going on in your life?

I've got about eight hours to change my mind, and I don't think I'm going to, but I need to hear myself say it to somebody who doesn't know my family.

All right, what's going on? What are you talking about?

My grandson came home from Austin last month. He's 23, and I know what's wrong with him, and he knows I know, and he has asked me not to tell his father. And I'm going to tell his father anyway. Tomorrow morning.

Okay. What's wrong with him?

It's not recreational. That's what I need you to understand. I found a bag in the barn last week and

what's in it? This isn't somebody having a hard time and making bad choices on the weekends. This is something else. Spit it out, Rosamond. What is in the bag?

Needles. And not just a few.

Okay. Well, I think then you're absolutely right to tell his father and to do whatever you can to get ahead. of that if he's 23 years old and got a bag full of needles. That's not the type of thing you want to find. And you're right. That's not a recreational thing.

No, it's not. And I know that. I have known that since the night he got here. Before I ever found anything. He has a tremor in his left hand that he keeps trying to hide for me, and he thinks I don't notice. But I spent 30 years watching teenagers, and I notice everything.

The thing is, he brought me flowers when he came home, Verbena, from the roadside.

Okay. Well, I mean, that was nice of him, but that doesn't have anything to do with this issue. Sure, he brought you some flowers, but he's probably going to rob your medicine cabinet. So I would lock up your stuff and see what you can do to get this kid to help now before it spirals out of control, and it starts to affect other parts of your family.

He used to bring me Verbena when he was little. Same thing. Just pulled from the side of the road on the way over? I don't know why I keep coming back to that. I think it's because it means some part of him is still in there and that part came home on purpose. But you're right. I know you're right.

Well, of course, some part of him is still in there. It's an addiction. And people that are addicts are not bad people, generally. They have an addiction. And if he's young enough now that that can be turned around, there are NA meetings around here and various ways to get help and support. but I think if he's staying with you and he's got a bag full of needles, you have to have a! conversation with him about what that's going to look like and set some rules. Obviously, you can't be shooting up in the bathroom in my house kind of rules. If you're going to stay here, I won't charge you rent or full rent or whatever it is that you can afford or how you want to make that deal. But in exchange for that, he's going to have to remain clean and follow some rules. Have you set any of that down? yet?

He doesn't know I found the bag. I put it back where it was.

Well, he asked you not to tell his father, right? So he must know that you know something.

He knows, I suspect. We haven't said it out loud to each other yet. And that's, that's part of what tomorrow's going to break open. Because once I call Dale, Eli is going to know I went around him. And Dale is not an easy man. Eli told me it would destroy what's left between them, and he is probably Dale handled grief badly the first time we had it in this family, and he never really came back from it.

Okay, well, this is your grandson, and Dale is his father, right? So is Dale your son, or is Dale your son in law?

Dale is my son. Eli's his boy.

Well, then I think you have to talk to your son and tell him that his boy is in trouble and do what you can to, I don't know. I don't know, smooth that over or help. Unless you think there's going to be some kind of violence or abuse, if Dale's going to fly off the handle and beat the kid or something like that, then maybe telling him the wrong thing to do. Which one of them do you have a stronger relationship with? Your son or your grandson?

Eli. Without question, Dale and I have been at a distance since 1990. We lost his brother that year. Car accident. And Dale just, he closed up. He's been closed up for 25 years.

Well, I mean, this might turn into sort of a family healing situation. Trauma sometimes can do that where you guys can sit down and talk about how to proceed and with the best interest of Eli in mind. And Eli has to be a part of that. Because at the end of the day, if this is what Eli wants to do in the life that he wants to lead, it's the one that he's going to lead. But if Eli wants to get help, obviously he came back from the city for some reason. Either he was in trouble or he knows that he's going to be in trouble and wanted to turn things around now while he's young. And you can help support him in that. But everybody has to be involved.

I've been sitting at my kitchen window for three hours tonight. You can see the Cochernot Ranch Road from where I sit. And there are lights up on the mountain and I have just been watching them. Thinking about whether a person can love somebody. and betray them at the same time and have it still be love.

Absolutely, yes, and that's the right thing to do in this situation.

That's what I needed to hear somebody say. Not somebody who knows us. Just somebody who could look at it plain. I lost one grandson's uncle to something sudden and there was nothing to be done. This is not sudden. This is something I can see coming and I have time to step in front of it. That's the difference. That's what I keep telling myself tonight.

You can try. help, you can support, you can't fix the problem. Only Eli can fix the problem and he has to want to fix the problem. So there's nothing you can do that is going to make it go away. All you can do is, um, is be supportive and offer, uh, assistance. If that's what he wants. If it's not what he wants, then all, all you can really do is say, well, you can't stay here. Go do what you're going to do and be safe. Use clean needles. And I'm here when you're

I know I can't fix it. I buried a child. I know what the limits of a mother's hands are. But I am not ready to stand at that window and just watch. Not yet. Not while he's still bringing me Verbena from the side of the road and sleeping in the room where he grew up.

Well, it's a rough thing, and he's still young, and it can be turned around. Lots of people turn around. I turned it around that age. So it can definitely be done, but it's important that it's his decision, right? And I would a conversation with him about that. You know, tell him you found the needles. You have an idea what's going on and ask him, what's going on? And what brought you here? What do you want to do do about this whole needle situation? I assume it's heroin.

Or fentanyl. Out of Austin right now, it's more likely fentanyl. And that's, that's a different math than what it used to be. You know, that? One mistake in the math is done. That's why I can't just watch.

No, you can't just watch. And you can't take full responsibility either. You have to take a supportive role. And that supportive role, prepare yourself because it may be a tough love kind of role. What you have to say, all right? Well, I mean, this is your issue and it's your life. And you have to do what you have to do, but you can't do it here.

I hear you. And I may get there. But I'm not calling Dale tomorrow because I want to throw Eli out. I'm calling Dale because Eli needs more than one person standing with him. And Dale deserves a chance to be that person even if he probably won't take it. And maybe that's foolish. Maybe I'm giving Dale a chance he hasn't earned. But he's my son, too.

Well, it makes sense to talk to Eli first and make sure you know what's going on. Because just because you found needles doesn't mean he's using those needles. It probably is. I mean, it's probably exactly what you think it is. But have that conversation honestly with him first. And if it turns out that you got to tell Dale about, with the situation, then you got to tell Dale, but don't turn it into a firestorm before it is one.

He has a tremor in his left hand. I know what I'm looking at. But you're not wrong that I owe him the conversation first. I have been sitting here for three hours trying to decide which order to do things in. And I think I've been so fixed on Dale that I skipped a step.

Yeah, talk to Eli. Tell Eli you're going to tell Dale, you know, prepare him for that. And that's not a betrayal. That's, that is love. That's you doing family and just let him know and set out some rules and see where Eli stands in all this. Does he want to stop? Because if he wants to stop, that's a different conversation than if he doesn't want to stop.

You know, what I haven't let myself think about until right now. What if I talk to Eli first and he runs? He's got a truck. He knows this country. He could be in three different counties before Dale even wakes up. And then I've got nothing. Not even the barn.

You don't have control over that. I think that you have to sit down and have that conversation. And if he runs, he runs. But you were there and you did your best. And that's all you can do in this situation. So like I said earlier, you're not going to fix the problem.

No matter how hard you try, the harder you try, the more you're going to push him away. So talk to Eli and just be real with him. Tell him it's out of love and give him the opportunity to break down and feel safe and honest and, uh, and talk about how he got into the situation, why he's in the situation, and where he wants to go from here.

You're right. I know you're right. I think I've been making this about Dale and about my own fear. And maybe what I actually need to do is walk out to that barn in the morning and just sit down with my grandson and tell him I found it. And I love him and ask him what he needs. Before I call anybody, before I do anything else.

Yeah. And, uh, don't get blinded by your affection for your grandson because I mean, we all know what addiction can do and you don't want to become a victim of it. So I mean, addicts are very well known for lying and stealing and cheating and you could end up in a rougher situation than you want to be if you if you believe him when you shouldn't be believe in him. So make sure that you're getting the truth. Make sure that you know where you stand and where he stands and what the situation is before you start, you know, giving money or housing or, uh, putting your neck out on the line to get him a job, things like that. Make sure that he wants to be clean. And if he doesn't want to be clean, let him go do what he has to do, uh, until, until he wants to be clean. Or unfortunately, I mean, we also know how fent and all can go. So you don't have control over this. You have to from responsibility for this and just do the best you can do.

I know about the lying. I'm not naive about what this is, but I want to be clear about something. I'm not calling Dale to protect my silverware. I'm calling Dale because if this goes the wrong way, he should not have to find out after. He should not have to stand at a graveside and learn that his mother knew and didn't tell him. I have been that person at a grave side. I will not make him be that person.

No, I understand that. And that's correct. But I'm saying, aside of that, that's not, you have to protect yourself too. And I'm not talking about your silverware. I'm talking about the deed to your house. I'm talking about having people show up at two in the morning with guns to rob you and take you to the ATM. Like, there's horrific things that can happen to you for trying to help. So just make sure that you're protecting yourself and you're aware of what's going on.

I'm a fourth generation rancher in Brewster County. I have a rifle in every room and I'm not frightened of people showing up at two in the morning. That's not my worry. My worry is the boy himself. Just the boy.

Yeah, and I'm telling you that can't be your only worry. But if it is, you don't have to listen to me, but make sure that you're thinking about yourself too, because it's easy to get blinded by your love for somebody else and be taken advantage of. And that doesn't help the boy. That hurts the boy.

You're right, but it doesn't help him if I'm not standing. I'll give you that. But I've been taking care of myself and other people on this land for a long time. and I think I know the difference between being blinded and being decided. Tonight, I needed to hear myself say it out loud to someone who doesn't have a stake in it. And I've done that now. I think I know what order to do things in tomorrow.

All right. Well, good luck with it. I hope everything works out for you and your family and the boy, because it's a horrible thing. And now, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for another word from another one of our new sponsors. Your teeth are slightly crooked. Not bad. Just enough that you noticed it in a photo three years ago and have thought about it every time you've smiled since. Brightline is the at-home clear liner system that fixes this without ever requiring you to sit in a dentist chair. Look up at a stranger or face whatever it is you've been avoiding. Order an impression kit. Send back your bite molds and within three weeks you'll receive a custom set of clear aligners in a treatment plan reviewed by a licensed orthodontist, who has reviewed approximately 800 plans that day and is operating, frankly, on momentum. The Bright Line system straightens most cases in four to six months for a flat fee of $1900, financed at 0% for the first 90 days, and then a rate we'll email you about. Aligners are mailed in a single shipment. Progress is monitored via a selfie. Adjustments are not possible. Brightline does not treat severe cases. job misalignment or any condition we describe in our terms as complex. We will refund the cost of the impression kit if we determine you are not a candidate after we have received and analyzed your impressions and shared them with our partners. The impressions themselves are non-returnable. Brightlineliners.com slash roost. $200 off plus a free whitening kit that we sourced wholesale. Brightline, a better smile by mail. All right, and we are back. Thanks to Brightline there for their support of the show. Next up, we've got Trace. Trace, welcome to the show. What's going on in your life tonight?

It's actually morning now. It's 5.30 a.m. I found something in a wall that I was not supposed to find, and now I know something I was not supposed to know. And the box has been in my truck for 11 days.

Okay. What is it that you found in your wall?

It's a cardboard box. letters and photographs, somebody sealed them up in a wall cavity on San Antonio Street, building I'm doing electrical work in. And they have been in there for what looks like 40 or 50 years. And I read them. That's the part I can't get past. I read enough of them to know what they are, and now I can't unknow it.

Oh, that's wild. It sounds like something out of a movie finding a time capsule like that. Okay, well, what's in the photos and documents? What is it that you found?

It's not a time capsule. A time capsule is something people put there on purpose to be found. This was hidden. There's a difference the letters are from two people. Two different handwritings. One is this very careful, neat cursive, school teacher kind of cursive. The other, one slants left, kind of loose, and what they document is an affair. And a child that came from it.

Okay. So what's the problem? You found, I assume these are strangers. It's not your house, right? It's not anybody in your family. So why is this impactful to you?

Because I've lived here 12 years. I've worked on nearly every building in this town. I know who built what and who sold what and who's buried where. The family that owned that building, their name is still on ranches out here. Their kids and grandkids are still here. And one of those photographs has a date on the back, March 1971.

Okay, so, I mean, you found something from 50 years ago that doesn't seem very relevant now. What was your issue with this?

The child. The child that those letters document, that person could be alive right now. Somewhere. Maybe here. Maybe not knowing who their father is, or who their mother is, or whatever the configuration was. That's not ancient history. That's somebody's actual life.

No, it's ancient history, and it's not your life. history and it's not your business. So I don't think there's an issue here. Yeah, you found out that there was an affair and there was a child and they're not people that you know and it's not something that you need to worry about. So just, I don't know, burn it. For all you know, all of this has come out in their own family discussions.

The photograph on the courthouse steps. The man in it, I'm pretty sure I've done electrical work in his son's house. I've had coffee with that man. And he looks enough like the person in that photograph that I noticed it the first time I saw it before I even knew what I was looking at. That's not strangers, Luke. That's my Tuesday morning.

No, that's strangers.

That's an old photograph with a guy that looks like somebody you maybe know. So that's nothing. This isn't your business, and you should keep out of it.

Yeah, yeah, maybe you're right. That's actually kind of why I called. I wanted somebody to tell me that, but I've been sitting with this box for 11 days, and that argument been sticking.

Well, make it stick because it's the right answer. It's not your family. It's not your business. It was not there for you to find. And you found something. So just get rid of it. You know, light it on fire and forget that it happened.

The thing is, I sat in my truck on a dirt road and read those letters for two hours. Two hours. I'm not a sentimental person. I don't do that. But those two people, whoever they were, they were real. The way they wrote. to each other. And burning it feels like I'm the one who makes them disappear for good this time. Somebody already did that once when they put them in that wall.

And I'm going to make you disappear right now, Trace. I don't care. Get rid of the pictures. It's not your business. Next up we've got Birch. Birch, welcome to the show. What's going on? How can we help you tonight?

A man told me a crime on a gravel bar in the middle of a canyon three weeks ago. And I told him to do the right thing, and I have no idea what he did. and I can't stop thinking about it.

What was the crime? Was it a murder?

No. Embezzlement. He ran A veteran's mental health nonprofit. And he'd been taking money from it for four years. About $400,000. And he was on my river trip. I'm a guide on the Rio Grande, trying to decide whether to turn himself in or cross into Mexico and disappear.

Why would you disappear?

What's it got to do with you? Not me, him. He was deciding. The Bokia's crossing is right there at the end of the lower canyons. It's literally a man with a rowboat and a few dollars, and you're in Mexico. I've crossed it myself a dozen times to go eat lunch on the other side. It's that easy. He knew that. The Bokia's crossing is actually a really interesting spot. It's practically a national park on the United States side and a small village on the Mexican side. And it's known for being one of the most remote and informal border crossings.

Well, I mean, I, I, I, I, I don't know that you want to get involved in this. You just heard a story. You don't even know that it's true. Just because he said something, he might have just been trying to act cool.

He wasn't acting cool. He was drunk on the scowl. He'd been rationing for four days and he was crying. And he had a tattoo on his forearm, a unit insignia. He'd served. And he was stealing from veterans. His own people. That's not a story you tell to seem interesting.

No, it's not. But it's also. not a story that's your problem. So I would stay out of it if I were you, and not to anything. And hopefully, he comes to his senses and turns himself in and returns the money, but that's probably not going to happen. I would guess that that guy's already in Mexico with a new name and a new life.

Yeah, maybe. That's the part that's eating me. Because he asked me directly, looked me in the eye on that gravel bar, and said, what would you do? And I said, turn yourself in. And dead like it meant And then he sobered up, finished the trip, tipped well, shook my hand, and drove away. And I have no last name.

Yeah, I bet he tipped well. He was tipping with stolen money. It's good for you. It sounds like you profited off of this whole situation. So he is giving back to the community. That's a good thing.

That's a little dark, Luke. But yeah, I thought about that. I did think about that after. Look, I've been on that river nine years. People say things in the canyons. The isolation does something. Strips people down. and I've heard a lot. But I've never felt responsible for an outcome before. This is the first time someone asked me a direct question, and I answered it, and then just vanished into the world with my answer.

Well, it wasn't your crime, and it wasn't your money, and you're a river guide, not a detective. So it's not on you to force an outcome either way. You know if something happened, you gave the best advice you could, you told him to turn himself in, and hopefully he does. does, great. And if he doesn't, either way, it's not you that did it.

I know that. I know that's the right way to think about it. But here's the thing. And I haven't said this out loud to anybody. His question wasn't just his question. You know what I mean? Turn yourself in or disappear. That's not a question that only applies to embezzlement.

No, it's not. And I think we've all been through that question in our own lives. Turn yourself in or disappear. I disappear frequently. That's kind of my thing.

Yeah, well, I've been disappearing for nine. years. That's what the river is. That's what this job is. And I told him to do the thing I haven't done. And I don't know if he did it. And I think that's why I can't let it go.

Well, what do you think you need to turn yourself in for?

That's a longer conversation than I probably have time for on a radio show at whatever time it is right now.

Well, you know what? People disappear for lots of reasons. And you're in the right place for disappearing. So you go to a place like a river crossing like that to reflect. and to think about where you want to go next in your life and to achieve some sort of oneness with nature and the universe. And it sounds like that's what you're doing. And if you can help somebody else in the process, then great. And you will find, you'll get the answer to whatever it is that you need to go back to or start over or start fresh with. As long as you're enjoying your time on the river and using it to heal whatever is. broken or figure out whatever it is that you need to figure out about yourself, then it's a good use of your time.

The river's good at that. It's genuinely good at that. But I think I've been using it as a reason not to figure anything out. Like the next trip starts and the next group shows up and you're busy and it's beautiful and it's real and Preston showed up and kind of blew a hole in that. Because he was doing the same thing I was doing, using the river to postpone a decision. And then he asked me to weigh in on his postponement. And I did.

Well, I mean, you can stay on that river as long as you want to, and when you feel like it's time for you to move on, then move on.

Yeah. I just wonder if I'll know when that is, or if I'll just keep floating.

That answer is totally up to you. And if Preston was the precipice, the thing that makes you reconsider and decide to make a move with your life, great. And if not, that's okay, too. The truth is, it's going to sit with you. for a while and churning up new things inside you and force you to reckon with whatever it is that you're hiding from. And that's a good thing for you. And it may be a good thing for Preston. And it's probably a good thing for the next people that break down inside those canyons. And you'll be able to learn from them and lead them and figure out where you go. The river's going to take you where it takes you.

That's either very wise or very convenient. I haven't decided which. But yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe Preston did me more of a favor than I did him. I just, I hope he turned himself in. I really do. Those veterans deserved better than what he did to them.

Probably, they probably did, but also, just because somebody's a veteran doesn't mean that they're a great person that deserves anything. Remember that, too. Not saying that they deserve to be ripped off. I'm just saying just because you're a veteran doesn't make you a saint. So. That's that. And ladies and gentlemen, that's the end of our show for tonight. Thank you for tuning in. And we'll be back soon for another episode of Luke at the Roost. Let's check in with Devon here. Hey, Devon, Devon, that's the end of our show. This is our first show in Alpine. How did you feel about it?

So basically, it felt good to finally be settled here after driving that Civic all the way out with the check engine light on the whole time. I keep thinking about how my last place had that one neighbor who used to practice bagpipes at 3 a.m. And somehow this feels quieter even though we're on the air. I don't know. I feel like we can actually make something out of these nights, if that makes sense.

It doesn't make any sense, but that's okay. We don't have to make sense. We're look at the roost. And we will talk to you again tomorrow.